Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Too late.

The only surprise I seem to have left, is finding it before it is too late.

I empathise with John Mortimer more and more.

Ohhhhhhhhhh cynic you get the daily chart or if you can be arsed the hourly chart or lower, and time your entry that way.

And entry is no way the be all and end all of managing a trade.

Even a winker like you must know that.

i generally use the 10 minute chart when playing with indices, but prefer to see a fuller picture (L2 live prices) if considering buying or selling an indidual stock

the former are often quite short term holds, whereas the latter are likley to be for much longer

Cyners,

I intend to say this only once, because it's Xmas. The problem with Level 2 when it comes to any sets stock is that there are too many bots playing the book to make Level 2 meaningful in any way whatsoever.

If I wanted to sell a million shares in XYZ Co, I wouldn't just stick them straight on the offer, no matter how heavily traded XYZ Co is. Firstly, I'd drum up a bit of interest by putting a sheep bot for, say, 100k shares at a point or two under the bid. This would give the illusion that there's a buyer in the market, prompting other buyers to come in on the bid, in front of my sheep bot. I'd program my sheep bot so that it stayed permanently a point or two under the bid, but never got hit itself, because I'm a seller rather than a buyer.

Alors, if the presence of my sheep bot caused the price to rise enough such that the bid hit the price at which I was looking to sell, I'd have another bot programmed and ready to take the bid, in whatever quantity up to the 1m I was looking to sell. That bot would be running on a server next door to the exchange's servers with fibre optic cables connecting the two servers, giving next to zero latency and beating every other Tom, Dick or Harry to market. Basically, that's what the big boys do, and if you can't beat 'em, you may as well join 'em.

In addition, I'd put another bot on the right hand side which dripped in 25k slugs at my sell price. As soon as one slug got hit, it'd be replaced with another sell order before you could say Jack Robinson.

All the time, I'd keep my sheep bot on the left hand side, a point or two under the bid, giving the false impression that the book was weighted in favour of buyers. Anyone looking at the VWAP would be tempted to come in as a buyer and, hopefully, take the other side of my trade. And, as soon as my large sell order got filled, I'd pull the sheep bot and allow the price to fall.

Geddit now? Because that's why Level 2 is the Fool's Gold of retail punters.

And the lights are going out in ?

Hilary, good post thanks - I haven't used Level 2 for about 6 years.

Cheers for that explanation hilly.


On that basis, as bad as it is, smallcaps are the only way for us retail punters :-(

Never used it. Scary stuff these bots hils :0)

Max,

You must be a punter to rely on smallcaps, or very quick on your feet.

Max,

No, that's not what I'm saying. There's no harm in playing larger caps whatsoever, it's just that you'd probably have greater success if you used Fishfinger's methodology in #53647 than you would have if you relied upon the L2 book.

And also, I may have dissed L2 unfairly. It's invaluable if you're using DMA.

Doods,

As I said last night, L2 was great up until about 10 years ago when all but about 150 or 200 companies were traded via SEAQ. You used to be able to see exactly which market maker was controlling the book on whichever side, and you could sit and wait for the other mm's to peel off the respective bid or offer and time your trade to perfection. It was sooooo easy to move the price for little money, and turn a decent profit in a short space of time.

And then the LSE went and ruined it all by introducing SETSmm....

Great post, Hils.

Hmmm? I used to like to smack the odd bot! I see things have now moved on a fair bit.

Stuff all this. It's just an amusement. Via taking the dog for a walk and then going down the supermarket, it's now most probably St James's Place for me.

That is unless anyone knows anyone better?

Bot smacking is probably something best kept between you and Lady Proc in the bedroom, Doc.

Super post 53649 Hils, Id forgoten all the tricks in the trade so Ive printed that off many thanks.

At some time I think Ill start trading indicies again but at the moment got too much business going on outside the Stock Market.

If I do see you again before 25th....... merry christmas.

hilary is busy rock sliding in the alps .... seems to be serious shortage of snow in europe

meanwhile, my silly little stock market positions are generally doing pretty well (PFC definitely apart!), despite my clearly risible method or lack of it

Best Christmas for years here Cyners. And to think just a week ago we were all worrying we werent going to get an xmas rally.

Never know whats around the next corner with the stock market, I suppose its one of the things that makes it addictive.

Today is pretty weak so far but tons of data out of the US this afternoon could change that and dont forget tomorrows half day is the best or 2nd best trading day historicaly for the whole year.

Exec, I have two friends who work for St James's and some other friends with mega bucks invested with them. If I was going to invest money it would be with STJ.

sticks - as i'm out and about and not sat in the office - though working at the moment - playing indices (especially) can be a very risky game

off shortly to a splendidly named and quirky pub by the name of Tucker's Grave - look it up

DB

:-)

Alf, Don't forget you can get a game of Shove halfpenny and or a game of skittles if you fancy either.

not there you can't ..... look it up on line for it's a very unusual establishment