Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

i think they probably are, but i shall be voting "out" anyway

Will you leave the country if the result is to stay in the EU?

i have no intention or wish to live elsewhere, but i wonder about MrT :-)

Me too.

I have lived in SW Florida for a number of years and will one day go back full time ,sooner if Britain goes to the dogs.

I'm looking forward to some tv debates with someone who can put forward the TRUTH without the lies or deception that the remain side feel they need to use, there's no need for the LEAVE side to lie or deceive they've just got to put the FACTS and the consequencie's of staying in the corrupt, undemocratic eu..

Yup hopefully it's coming .

There will be no truth in the TV debates. It will be scare tactics all the way. The two sides cannot even agree how much our net contribution to the EU is.

Surely whether to REMAIN or LEAVE is best judged on the record of the past 40 years. If the record of being in the EU was good why is it necessary for DC and Co to employ scare tactics, just promote the benefits we have seen since the 1970's.
2517

Granny,

Do you mean the truth as you believed it to be?

--=-==-

Look around you and compare the economic and social gains for yourself over the last 40years for the majority in the UK , especially when considering before the last 5 1/2 years.

(Life expectancy is a good indicator, for a starter.)

but fred, how much the improvement in living standards in uk is attributable to our membership of eu is impossible to determine

in any case, the whole nature of the beast has changed - i would argue very much for the worse - since 7 became 13 and is now 28 i think and growing
as it stands, there now needs to be root and branch reform, but there is not the slightest interest in doing any such thing

The gross we pay to the EU is appox 19 BILLION pounds,, the eu gives back the UK around 8 BILLION pounds, but they tell the UK what to spend it on.

I believe there is one side that dosn't have to stretch the truth because we've seen what the EU has done to our sovereignty, border control, democracy, rules, regulations..etc, etc.. And that's the LEAVE side with the main instigators been UKIP..

When there was the TV debate between Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage, it was well regarded by most of the press and the general population that Nigel Farage won hands down, simply by telling the truth and giving the facts, Clegg was caught out on several occasions been economical with the truth..

Your absolutely right cynic , the EU was fine before we had 28 countries in it but then Fred wants to swamp the country with millions of non skilled no bodies from Eastern Europe and also every tom dick and harry from the middle east , Fred is an imbecile of the first order.

you shouldn't personalise, as the mess in eu is not of fred's doing :-)

freedom of movement
i fully understand why this is such an important element of eu co-operation
however, it is all now totally skewed as so many new eu members have very low wage levels, so of course their citizens want to whizz around and live in the richer countries

while germany may welcome and indeed need an increased labour force, uk does not, or at least only in certain industries
it follows that uk needs to be able to choose who can come to work here



scare stories etc
no one knows what will actually happen in the unlikely event that the vote favours "out"
i think it is far shorter odds than a racing certainty that there will be at least a year or two of economic and market chaos throughout europe with perhaps ripple effect around the world

whether or not it really will take a decade for eu to determine how it will trade with uk, and vice versa, is questionable
in many ways, eu needs uk more as a purchaser of its products that vice versa
however, if eu is going to take years and years and years to determine the "new rules" it says a great deal about how unwieldy the whole eu legislation set-up really is

how much influence will the city and its services lose if we exit eu?
i don't know, but it might be significant, and that could be a severe blow to uk economy

From today's Mail:

Suggest you think about the information in p554.

Check the importance of such and consider the meaning of word "rules".

As a starter MEP is worth more than Cameron and it is up to British HP to set salaries of MPs and Ministers.

Suggest there is another UK referendum to see what their salaries should be.

My stay in the EU booklet from Cameron arrived today.

It has some good arguments in it.

'Confessions of a Brussels insider' was from an article by Daniel Hannan...
The rest of the article which was very informative, should've been posted not
just that panel.

Go on then!

That Pro EU booklet is just that...

For a start This gem..."The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU"..
The geezers in Brussels must be wetting themselves laughing at that one...
These 'reforms' that Cameron says gives the UK special status is a fallacy,
They have to go before the commissioners and judges, and could be thrown out, and knowing how the EU works they will rewrite, move a comer, or a full stop and the UK will be back at square one with ALL these 'reforms' consigned to the bin... But i'm sure 'dave' believes them, but the EU have a project to carry out, and won't let one country detract them from that.

As to securing borders that's another load of BS, There's thousands of ILLEGAL immigrants on the coast of France attempting to get into the UK everyday 24/7...'dave' says we control our borders because we're not in the Shengen zone...When immigrants get asylum in a country, after 5 years they get EU passports which allows them to travel and work in any of the other 27 countries..

Another false claim.....No other country has managed to secure significant access to the single market without having to follow EU rules which they have no real say, pay into the EU, accept EU citizens living and working in their country.

The USA export more to the EU then the UK does, and they don't have to pay, don't have to have workers from the other 27 countries or follow any excessive rules..

That's just a couple of things I picked out, there are plenty more untruths and deceptions...