Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

The new Greek government have said they won't talk to the troika of IMF, EU and banks. They want to speak directly to the leaders of the individual EU countries. Merkel, today, has replied that there will be no debt relief for Greece. That pretty much settles it. The EU is worried about the emerging anti austerity parties in Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy. They also want to be rid of the far left government in Greece. You can expect an explosive clash between Greece and the EU. Greece are due a major instalment of their bailout any day now. Will they get it?

"There has already been voluntary debt forgiveness by private creditors, banks have already slashed billions from Greece's debt," Mrs Merkel said.

"I do not envisage fresh debt cancellation."

ignore the public posturing .... the real work and negotiation is done behind the scenes

Tsipras has got Merkel by the short and curlys.

The debt is unpayable, theres simply too much of it.

By any normal reckoning, the land of €l Greco is bust, and all sides will have to see that more of the same simply wont do.


edit: Extend and pretend...100 year bonds have been mentioned.

the money in itself is a relatively minor issue
the important bit is how strong the will is to keep EU together and € as its currency

it then becomes a matter of bluff and poker and, for the outside world, yet more smoke and mirrors

Any signs of Greece leaving the EU may cause money to leave European banks in general and Greek banks in particular. Who would leave any assets in Greek banks when they would be converyed into a new heavily devalued currency. There have aleady been reports of money fleeing Greece. A GRexit could cause a banking crisis. The EU will try hard to keep Greece in the Euro and EU. I am for taking a very hard line with the debt. The Greeks borrowed vast sums of cheap money from the EU and spent it on stupid things and expect the debt to be forgiven. Unemployment has recently started to reverse and GDP recover. They risk making things worse and exactly the opposite of what the new government has promised.

money is already fleeing greece, much of it probably into london property

Some of the pro's and cons.



Go ahead, Angela, make my day

Syriza’s win could lead to Grexit, but it should lead to a better future for the euro





IT WAS in Greece that the infernal euro crisis began just over five years ago. So it is classically fitting that Greece should now be where the denouement may be played out—thanks to the big election win on January 25th for the far-left populist Syriza party led by Alexis Tsipras (see article). By demanding a big cut in Greece’s debt and promising a public-spending spree, Mr Tsipras has thrown down the greatest challenge so far to Europe’s single currency—and thus to Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, who has set the austere path for the continent.

The stakes are high. Although everybody, including Mr Tsipras, insists they want Greece to stay in the euro, there is now a clear threat of Grexit. In 2011-12 Mrs Merkel wavered, but then decided to support the Greeks to keep them in the single currency. She did not want Germany to be blamed for another European disaster, and both northern creditors and southern debtors were nervous about the consequences of a chaotic Greek exit for Europe’s banks and their economies.

This time the odds have changed. Grexit would look more like the Greeks’ fault, Europe’s economy is stronger and 80% of Greece’s debt is in the hands of other governments or official bodies. Above all the politics are different. The Finns and the Dutch, like the Germans, want Greece to stick to promises it made when they twice bailed it out. And in southern Europe centrist governments fear that a successful Greek blackmail would push voters towards their own populist opposition parties, like Spain’s Podemos (see article).


More:http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21641200-syrizas-win-could-lead-grexit-it-should-lead-better-future-euro-go-ahead

Syriza’s victory will inspire other populists to challenge Europe’s political order

Jan 31st 2015 |


http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21641273-syrizas-victory-will-inspire-other-populists-challenge-europes-political-order-greece-and-its

Do you mean UKIP will win the G.E.?

at the last euro-elections there was already a strong showing from many countries and parties who wanted significant reform

being totally self-serving and unaccountable, having made some conciliatory noises, "brussels" then continued unperturbed and undisturbed on its own merry way

just possibly, this greek tragedy will force matters

With a bit of luck c.

I am wondering whether the "Greek democratic revolt" will stimulate the more left of centre leaning UK voters, who seem in some ways amazingly apathetic at the moment to vote.


It seems to have lifted the mood of the Spanish public.

I wonder what "political weapons" will be used in the last 20 to 30 days in the run up to the general elections.

NHS crashing. Welfare services overloaded and crashing, Prison services educating offenders to use drugs and crashing out, teachers out on strike. Doctors leaving the country and frequent trips by Osborne and Cameron to the Cayman Isle.

Let's hope The EU stamps out this lefty nonsense quickly before the disease spreads. The hard medicine in Greece has been paying off. Unemployment is falling and GDP has started to rise. Hopefully the EU will take a tough line and ensure the the new government will have to renege on its promises.

Haystack.

The original debt has almost doubled since the 2008 blow-up.

Greece is not coming out of anything, it is going down the toilet.


What do you not understand about about rising debt?

To repay the country's debt at usury standards.

I can see why it appeals to Haze and his party central office.

56161 - why the left? ..... the right also have these tendencies as shown by the rise of the nazi party

Greece is paying very low interest rates on its loans. When the bailout agreement was arranged, creditors had to agree to major cuts in their debts. Greece has already been treated pretty well bearing in mind how profligate they were. France's finance minister has ruled out further financial relief for Greece, as he insisted that the country's debt burden would not be shouldered by the rest of the eurozone. This is interesting, bearing in mind that Hollande came to power on an anti austerity ticket. He has now changed his stance now and austerity is now the policy in France