Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Any signs of Greece leaving the EU may cause money to leave European banks in general and Greek banks in particular. Who would leave any assets in Greek banks when they would be converyed into a new heavily devalued currency. There have aleady been reports of money fleeing Greece. A GRexit could cause a banking crisis. The EU will try hard to keep Greece in the Euro and EU. I am for taking a very hard line with the debt. The Greeks borrowed vast sums of cheap money from the EU and spent it on stupid things and expect the debt to be forgiven. Unemployment has recently started to reverse and GDP recover. They risk making things worse and exactly the opposite of what the new government has promised.

money is already fleeing greece, much of it probably into london property

Some of the pro's and cons.



Go ahead, Angela, make my day

Syriza’s win could lead to Grexit, but it should lead to a better future for the euro





IT WAS in Greece that the infernal euro crisis began just over five years ago. So it is classically fitting that Greece should now be where the denouement may be played out—thanks to the big election win on January 25th for the far-left populist Syriza party led by Alexis Tsipras (see article). By demanding a big cut in Greece’s debt and promising a public-spending spree, Mr Tsipras has thrown down the greatest challenge so far to Europe’s single currency—and thus to Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, who has set the austere path for the continent.

The stakes are high. Although everybody, including Mr Tsipras, insists they want Greece to stay in the euro, there is now a clear threat of Grexit. In 2011-12 Mrs Merkel wavered, but then decided to support the Greeks to keep them in the single currency. She did not want Germany to be blamed for another European disaster, and both northern creditors and southern debtors were nervous about the consequences of a chaotic Greek exit for Europe’s banks and their economies.

This time the odds have changed. Grexit would look more like the Greeks’ fault, Europe’s economy is stronger and 80% of Greece’s debt is in the hands of other governments or official bodies. Above all the politics are different. The Finns and the Dutch, like the Germans, want Greece to stick to promises it made when they twice bailed it out. And in southern Europe centrist governments fear that a successful Greek blackmail would push voters towards their own populist opposition parties, like Spain’s Podemos (see article).


More:http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21641200-syrizas-win-could-lead-grexit-it-should-lead-better-future-euro-go-ahead

Syriza’s victory will inspire other populists to challenge Europe’s political order

Jan 31st 2015 |


http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21641273-syrizas-victory-will-inspire-other-populists-challenge-europes-political-order-greece-and-its

Do you mean UKIP will win the G.E.?

at the last euro-elections there was already a strong showing from many countries and parties who wanted significant reform

being totally self-serving and unaccountable, having made some conciliatory noises, "brussels" then continued unperturbed and undisturbed on its own merry way

just possibly, this greek tragedy will force matters

With a bit of luck c.

I am wondering whether the "Greek democratic revolt" will stimulate the more left of centre leaning UK voters, who seem in some ways amazingly apathetic at the moment to vote.


It seems to have lifted the mood of the Spanish public.

I wonder what "political weapons" will be used in the last 20 to 30 days in the run up to the general elections.

NHS crashing. Welfare services overloaded and crashing, Prison services educating offenders to use drugs and crashing out, teachers out on strike. Doctors leaving the country and frequent trips by Osborne and Cameron to the Cayman Isle.

Let's hope The EU stamps out this lefty nonsense quickly before the disease spreads. The hard medicine in Greece has been paying off. Unemployment is falling and GDP has started to rise. Hopefully the EU will take a tough line and ensure the the new government will have to renege on its promises.

Haystack.

The original debt has almost doubled since the 2008 blow-up.

Greece is not coming out of anything, it is going down the toilet.


What do you not understand about about rising debt?

To repay the country's debt at usury standards.

I can see why it appeals to Haze and his party central office.

56161 - why the left? ..... the right also have these tendencies as shown by the rise of the nazi party

Greece is paying very low interest rates on its loans. When the bailout agreement was arranged, creditors had to agree to major cuts in their debts. Greece has already been treated pretty well bearing in mind how profligate they were. France's finance minister has ruled out further financial relief for Greece, as he insisted that the country's debt burden would not be shouldered by the rest of the eurozone. This is interesting, bearing in mind that Hollande came to power on an anti austerity ticket. He has now changed his stance now and austerity is now the policy in France

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11371694/Greek-banks-lose-quarter-of-value-following-Syriza-victory.html

Greek banks lose €8bn in three days since Syriza victory as liquidity crisis feared

Third consecutive double-digit share price slump on Wednesday as depositors pull billions out of accounts and support from ECB is questioned

Greece’s banks have lost almost 40pc of their value in the three days since Syriza ascended to power in Sunday's election as the dual threats of a bank run and the loss of support from the European Central Bank threaten a liquidity squeeze.
The FTSE/Athex Bank Index, a weighted index of Greek bank shares, fell to a new all-time low on Wednesday. They have now lost more than half their value since early December, when a general election was triggered.
Wednesday saw a third consecutive day of double digit gains, with the index falling as much as 20pc. National Bank of Greece, Piraeus, Alpha Bank and Eurobank all slumped, with up to €7.7bn wiped off their combined market values since the election.
Billion has been pulled out of Greek banks since November, according to Moody’s, with more withdrawals likely amid fears that the life support from the European Central Bank will be extinguished.
Syriza’s Alexis Tsipras, who was sworn in as prime minister on Monday, on Tuesday appointed the economist Yanis Varoufakis, a fellow fierce opponent of European-imposed austerity, as Greece’s finance minister.

The move was seen as a further sign that Greece is on a collision course with the EU over repaying debt and maintaining its bail-out programme, which currently expires on February 28. Mr Varoufakis, who studied at the University of Essex, has described Greece’s austerity agreements as “fiscal waterboarding”.
The bank sell-off pulled the Athens Stock Exchange down 6.4pc on Wednesday amid further warnings that Syriza and its coalition partners, the right-wing Independent Greek party, will struggle to come to an agreement with the Troika of the ECB, International Monetary Fund and European Union.
“Syriza’s position is in direct opposition to the Troika and will make negotiations for renewing the programme very challenging when the current agreement with the European Commission expires on February 28,” said Alpona Banerji at Moody’s.
“The party’s election campaign was based on ending the Troika programme, negotiating a debt write-off and reversing some of the key spending reforms previously undertaken. Moreover, Greece’s European partners are likely to resist any such reversals, as they could also increase pressure for a similar unwinding of austerity measures, and reduce prospects for structural reforms elsewhere in Europe.”
Bank shares fell 13pc on Monday, another 12pc on Tuesday, and up to 20pc on Wednesday, meaning they have lost almost 40pc since Sunday’s election.

The risk of a full-blown crisis should a political showdown mean Greece defaulting has seen depositors withdraw billions from Greek banks, echoing the summer of 2012 when the Greek central bank was forced to provide up to €124bn of emergency liquidity assistance (ELA) – loans to keep the banks running.
Banks also risk a repeat of the deposit flight seen in 2012. Up to €8bn of private sector deposits has been pulled out of Greek banks since November, according to Moody's.
Greece’s bail-out agreements with the Troika have given its banks access to the ECB’s funding scheme, unlocking billions in cheap liquidity.
However, banks are running out of collateral to use against these loans, and will be ineligible for such support if Greece fails to extend its bail-out programme next month.

The ECB pulling the plug would come at the worst possible time for Greece’s banks, whose use of the funding scheme is expected to have risen to a two-year high.
Moody’s predicts that ECB funding will rise from €56bn to €65bn this month, with bank deposits down 5pc in the last two months to around €156bn.
With banks potentially losing support from the ECB, they are likely to turn to Greece’s central bank for emergency assistance; several have already applied to do so. The banks have not been forced to use ELA - which is more expensive than ECB loans - since May last year.

Nondas Nicolaides, vice president and senior credit officer at Moody’s, added that many borrowers close to default will simply refuse to restructure debts in the coming months to see if the new government will force banks to write them off.
“We believe borrowers will be inclined to halt negotiations with banks, in the hope that the new government will promote borrower-friendly measures, including debt forgiveness, a topic that has been widely debated among political parties in recent months,” he said.

56161 - stimulate the more left of centre leaning UK voters, who seem in some ways amazingly apathetic at the moment to vote.

a curious comment from you fred, who refuses to vote (as is your democratic right of course)

as you imply, people of any leaning can rattle and rant to their heart's content, but if they can't then be arsed to go and vote, then they (almost) needn't waste their breath, for they are but as sounding brass

Manuel,

56161 - why the left? ..... the right also have these tendencies as shown by the rise of the nazi party

It would be suspected some of the centre would lurch to the right and join the neo-cons/fascist wing of the present tory party. (Before it fragments.)

But, I think (believe), that the "majority" of the UK population is more tolerant, liberal and not made up of "little Englanders" in their mentality or morality and wish for a more caring and responsible form of government.

They have no trust in Cameron, or George Boy and see them as money grabbing for themselves and those of their own ilk, with less regard those on poorer incomes and that extends into the middle classes.

They wish for a fairer and a more egalitarian society, but that does not mean a "give away society".

But the Cuts in Welfare and Education are coming home to many, especially those who kids are changing schools and facilities of the schools their children are already attending.


The pay packets of the majority of "workers" in purchasing power has decreased and the can see little improvement in their future expectations under another right winged tory government. It doesn't look rosy for them.

They see it as :

MORE OF WHAT THEY HAVE HAD.
=======

56169 - no relevance at all to what i wrote, but then you rarely need any prompting to have a predictable little rant

Manuel.

You must have stopped you medication again.

Before the reality hits you in the face examine the effects of the enforced "austerity program" on Greece is having.

Then open your eyes and look around you the UK., not just the Thames Embankment and you may realised the same problems, to a lesser degree, are effecting communities throughout the UK who are not benefitting from the “gains” of “austerity” due to the manner and severity the policies were implemented.

People within the S.E and London may be self satisfied, but majority of those outside that are pissed off.

The Greeks, may be icons for many.

Its cold here in the SE and still paying £1.219 a ltr of diesel . I reckon we are subsidising the Northerners. :-))

I am only playing 1.05p in London