Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The legislation for the referendum was framed poorly. Firstly, there should have been a minimum turnout and margin to ensure the result was acceptable.

The more major point is that the referendum was created as advisory and not mandatory. That has left open the possibility of legal challenges and Parliament expecting a vote on the matter.

What bollox you talk Haystack.

Had the vote gone the "right" way, it would have been hailed as a historic achievement and there would have been no talk of another vote for any reason.


The €uro's in their arrogance buggered it up, along with Call Me and fellow travellers like yourself.

sturgeon throwing down the gauntlet to TM ......

Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon will next week publish a draft bill that could potentially pave the way for a second independence referendum in Scotland, claiming that voters north of the border should be able to reconsider their position before the UK leaves the EU.
In a speech on Thursday, Mrs Sturgeon issued a warning to Theresa May, the UK prime minister, that it is “high time” she respected the 62 per cent of Scottish voters who opposed leaving the EU, warning that the SNP MPs in Westminster will vote against the Brexit bill when it comes before the House of Commons next year.

hays - i'm sure the turnout was at least as great as for a GE, and i don't think either that or a minimum majority has ever been part of the uk's political system .....

for better or worse, it has always been "first past the post" and if you don't vote, then you just have to go along with the result

Which "matter" are the losers in Parliament expecting a vote Hays?
Max is quite right, if the vote had gone the other way, there would have been no argument about the result. When I see the scowling faces of Soubry and Thornberry, I know we did the right thing. Thornberry I can forgive because she was born stupid, while Soubry is a vicious haridan.

If the referendum had not been created as advisory we would not be having legal challenges and calls for votes in Parliament.

Started today to conclude Monday

A legal challenge to the government's right to formally begin Brexit without parliamentary approval is under way.
The High Court will consider whether ministers can invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, the trigger for formal talk, without MPs passing a new law.
The woman leading the case said ministers were trying to "bypass Parliament" by not offering a vote.
But critics said it was a "naked attempt to steal the referendum by the back door".
Ministers argue they are entitled to act under ancient powers of Royal Prerogative

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37639307

Manuel,

"Shorthand thoughts."

I think the wording of the referendum was poor.

I think the intention of many voters who voted yes or no was driven more by emotion than factual information.

Those who voted, either way, had the right to do so and both sides of the argument had their "idiots".

Also, both sides had those who were thoughtful, but I do question their true motivation and goals.

The problem for me is that while the voters to stay were aware and experienced what being in the EU meant, the majority of those voting for "out" did not have a clue about what it meant or implied. They were and still are buying a pig in a poke.


One of the major problems I see as a result is probably the UK will have less leverage in financial and political world negotiations in future.

Who will want to deal with the UK when ongoing instability and possible whimsical tearing up of future contracts is practiced etc..

With the world's affairs are in such chaos as they appear at the moment, stability is what is needed not piracy.

The outlook seems problematic.

There were/are problems in any multinational, public or private organisations, but constant reviews and negotiations, for me, are the way to resolve difficulties.

As well as give and take in attempts to get better deals for all concerned.

PS.

I have never advocated another referendum and although as a teenager admired Switzerland having a referendum of the people soon saw the difficulties of such.

But, I do think the stages and actions of government should be monitored by MPs etc and new treaties, contracts etc. should be voted on rather than introduced by a cabal.

Fred 5643 "The Brexiters are reacting like a bunch of unruly irrational school
children demanding new toys"

Ho yes! its the LEAVERS that is demanding another referendum, its the LEAVERS
that will not accept the will of the people, its the LEAVERS that have the full
backing of the establishment, which is 90% of ALL the parliamentary parties who
have chosen to go against their electors in their wanton sycophantic fawning for
the gangsters in Brussels....NOT!!!!..

Haystack 5649 "Firstly there should have been a minimum turnout and margin"

What utter tosh, Isn't it fantastic that NOTHING before the referendum
was referred to in the event that if there was a vote for Brexit than there would
need to be a further referendum to invoke article50, after all the parliament
voted in favour by 6-1, as for the need for a margin, there was an over 70%
turnout, which is a very good representative indication, and would only be
bettered if there was compulsory voting(inducing many spoilt papers)..

And don't be fooled by "If the referendum had not been created as advisory we
would not be having legal challenges"

Ho yes we fricking would, the remainers would, like they are doing now be
constantly moaning and going to the courts, because they didn't get the result
they wanted in their attempts at getting the referendum annuled, they were
so sure that they were going to win, and if they had THEY wouldn't be even
contemplating another referendum in a million years.....

even shorter hands from me :-)

if the EEC had remained an economic bloc, then most assuredly it would have made sense to stay in
however, and perhaps inevitably, it has become totally politicised - and far too big and unmanageable

while UK remained in, i do not think there would ever have been any will to make the radical reforms that EU now needs ..... Germany would have dragged us further and further towards a federal Europe with all its ramifications, and that i assuredly would not want

by leaving, UK may well have provided the catalyst, though UK is likely to suffer for so doing, though not indefinitely
whether or not EU will be able to survive is another matter altogether

i am certainly no constitutional lawyer, but i would hope that Article 50 and the result of the negotiations does NOT have to be ratified by parliament, as i am certain that would only make matters even more shambolic

Fred , "Many have been deceived by the false propaganda leading up the referendum vote or are little englanders."


Oh come off it , there was a lot more bolloxs spouted by Cammy , Ossie , BofE , IMF the EU itself , Obama etc etc.

Every vote we ever have is full of false propaganda beforehand so why the big fuss this time ?

This part of the 'argument' really irks me....

"radical reforms that the EU now needs"

Where is the indication that this is at the top of the agenda in the corridors
of power in Brussels, it isn't because they have no intention of reforming
or anything else, they are full of smoke and mirrors..

Manuel,

All "negotiations" relating to "trades" and "laws" and "rules" are political.

One can't escape such unless you want anarchy.


"synonyms: governmental, government, local government, ministerial, parliamentary, party political, diplomatic, legislative, policy-making, constitutional, public, civic, state, administrative, bureaucratic"

Granny's boy,

The exiters have been bitching about the EU for nearly 50yrs.

They are only just older than their complaints.

Mind the Brexiters should have more rights than the remainders.

-=-=

On your bike.

Well seeing as we weren't in the EU 50 years ago thats a false statement.
Plus once the referendum in the 70's was out the way there wasn't much
bitching, the establishment just let those gangsters in Brussels carry on their
merry way in indoctrinating and committing this country further into the
european project..

How close is "nearly"?

Perhaps, you should ask your granny about the history.

Well we joined the COMMON MARKET in the 70's, but apparently that
was only a wolf in sheep's clothing, approx 43 years ago.

The SNP have been getting carried away with the atmosphere at their
conference and in all the excitement have gone into overdrive on the
threats of another independence vote if the UK goes ahead with Brexit,
and are overdosing with their bluster and bluff..

The scrotes DO NOT have any bargaining chips, without England they would
be fu****, they would have to reapply to join the EU, which would entail
them joining the euro and shengen zone, and Germany would implement
severe austerity measures to get their deficit down, but would Germany want
another dead lame duck to fund...

I have no real beef with the Jocks, but they will insist on electing leaders who are away with the fairies.

If the wee one gets her way, a re-building project might be a better use of money than HS2: