Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

PS.

I have never advocated another referendum and although as a teenager admired Switzerland having a referendum of the people soon saw the difficulties of such.

But, I do think the stages and actions of government should be monitored by MPs etc and new treaties, contracts etc. should be voted on rather than introduced by a cabal.

Fred 5643 "The Brexiters are reacting like a bunch of unruly irrational school
children demanding new toys"

Ho yes! its the LEAVERS that is demanding another referendum, its the LEAVERS
that will not accept the will of the people, its the LEAVERS that have the full
backing of the establishment, which is 90% of ALL the parliamentary parties who
have chosen to go against their electors in their wanton sycophantic fawning for
the gangsters in Brussels....NOT!!!!..

Haystack 5649 "Firstly there should have been a minimum turnout and margin"

What utter tosh, Isn't it fantastic that NOTHING before the referendum
was referred to in the event that if there was a vote for Brexit than there would
need to be a further referendum to invoke article50, after all the parliament
voted in favour by 6-1, as for the need for a margin, there was an over 70%
turnout, which is a very good representative indication, and would only be
bettered if there was compulsory voting(inducing many spoilt papers)..

And don't be fooled by "If the referendum had not been created as advisory we
would not be having legal challenges"

Ho yes we fricking would, the remainers would, like they are doing now be
constantly moaning and going to the courts, because they didn't get the result
they wanted in their attempts at getting the referendum annuled, they were
so sure that they were going to win, and if they had THEY wouldn't be even
contemplating another referendum in a million years.....

even shorter hands from me :-)

if the EEC had remained an economic bloc, then most assuredly it would have made sense to stay in
however, and perhaps inevitably, it has become totally politicised - and far too big and unmanageable

while UK remained in, i do not think there would ever have been any will to make the radical reforms that EU now needs ..... Germany would have dragged us further and further towards a federal Europe with all its ramifications, and that i assuredly would not want

by leaving, UK may well have provided the catalyst, though UK is likely to suffer for so doing, though not indefinitely
whether or not EU will be able to survive is another matter altogether

i am certainly no constitutional lawyer, but i would hope that Article 50 and the result of the negotiations does NOT have to be ratified by parliament, as i am certain that would only make matters even more shambolic

Fred , "Many have been deceived by the false propaganda leading up the referendum vote or are little englanders."


Oh come off it , there was a lot more bolloxs spouted by Cammy , Ossie , BofE , IMF the EU itself , Obama etc etc.

Every vote we ever have is full of false propaganda beforehand so why the big fuss this time ?

This part of the 'argument' really irks me....

"radical reforms that the EU now needs"

Where is the indication that this is at the top of the agenda in the corridors
of power in Brussels, it isn't because they have no intention of reforming
or anything else, they are full of smoke and mirrors..

Manuel,

All "negotiations" relating to "trades" and "laws" and "rules" are political.

One can't escape such unless you want anarchy.


"synonyms: governmental, government, local government, ministerial, parliamentary, party political, diplomatic, legislative, policy-making, constitutional, public, civic, state, administrative, bureaucratic"

Granny's boy,

The exiters have been bitching about the EU for nearly 50yrs.

They are only just older than their complaints.

Mind the Brexiters should have more rights than the remainders.

-=-=

On your bike.

Well seeing as we weren't in the EU 50 years ago thats a false statement.
Plus once the referendum in the 70's was out the way there wasn't much
bitching, the establishment just let those gangsters in Brussels carry on their
merry way in indoctrinating and committing this country further into the
european project..

How close is "nearly"?

Perhaps, you should ask your granny about the history.

Well we joined the COMMON MARKET in the 70's, but apparently that
was only a wolf in sheep's clothing, approx 43 years ago.

The SNP have been getting carried away with the atmosphere at their
conference and in all the excitement have gone into overdrive on the
threats of another independence vote if the UK goes ahead with Brexit,
and are overdosing with their bluster and bluff..

The scrotes DO NOT have any bargaining chips, without England they would
be fu****, they would have to reapply to join the EU, which would entail
them joining the euro and shengen zone, and Germany would implement
severe austerity measures to get their deficit down, but would Germany want
another dead lame duck to fund...

I have no real beef with the Jocks, but they will insist on electing leaders who are away with the fairies.

If the wee one gets her way, a re-building project might be a better use of money than HS2:

And you can understand why some of the "jocks" consider the little englanders condescending boys.

Funny enough Fred, I cant/don't understand..your logic defeats me.

the low oil price has totally fucked scotland and it would be totally bankrupt unless bankrolled from london

That statement from fred on little englanders is somewhat a misnomer in
this case after all its the scots that want to be little scoties..

So be it!



EU council president: it's hard Brexit or no Brexit at all

Donald Tusk scotches Boris Johnson’s argument that the UK could strike a better deal with the EU after Brexit


Jennifer Rankin in Brussels and Heather Stewart

Friday 14 October 2016 06.59 BST



More: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/its-hard-brexit-or-no-brexit-at-all-says-eu-council-president

The Europeans seemed more concerned with us leaving than we do.

I'm resigned to the fact that there will be no deal on the single market when we leave and anything better than that is a bonus.

It really isn't the end of the world not being in the single market and over time deals will be done that will compensate for it. These may be with the EU itself (if it survives) and/or the rest of the world.

Deals at what prices?

I forgot at Marmite prices.

For those who haven't already read it, here is an interesting summary:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-inflation-idUKKCN12D1SZ?feedType=nl&feedName=ukmorningdigest&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=UK%20Morning%20Digest%202016-10-14&utm_term=UK%20Morning%20Digest