Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3909314/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-EU-vote-Britain-really-needs-patriotic-leaders.html

As I've already stated, and for the benefit of those who are slow on the uptake
(fred) i'l repeat it...


The commons had a vote on whether to have a referendum, they voted nearly
10-1 in favour, what that vote 'should' have given us, is to allow the government
to invoke article50, WITHOUT having to revert back to the commons to get further
permission to trigger article50.

Anyone with an ounce of sense, or in positions where they have to read AND
understand contracts and TREATIES, and who pass rules and laws that govern
people and countries.

In this case, there is a clause in the Lisbon Treaty that states any country
wanting to leave the EU, has to invoke article50 in writing.

When they had the referendum, having already had the commons vote on
having the referendum, then that gave the government the right to trigger
article50 to begin the whole process, so it has absolutely nothing to do with
denying sovereignty to parliament..It had already obtained it!!!..

Pardon,

Didn't hear you!

gb

That's exactly the way I see it, too.

Unfortunately, the judiciary are the arbiters of the situation. They are the ultimate deciders if the executive has over reached itself. There is nothing wrong with what has happened. I hope the Supreme Court overturns the judgement but if not then Parliament decides.

The referendum was advisory only. Then it comes down to whether the executive can use Royal Prerogative and the courts so far say no. Their decision is based on law and not the right or wrong of triggering Article 50. We should be pleased that we have an independent judiciary. It can hold governments to account.

Hays,

I agree with you.

another in agreeance, for all sorts of reasons

fred - 5797 - though i understand your point and whence you are coming, in this instance - somewhat rarer of late - i do not agree

to start from the beginning ...... the result of the referendum was a fairly significant majority in favour of "out"

therefore, given that we live under a "first past the post" system, imo once it has been agreed that article 50 should be triggered (as i think is the most likely result), then it is for the gov't to negotiate the best deal it can without interference from the rest of westminster who will assuredly not know (and nor should it) the full detail of the whys and wherefores

little difference between this scenario and other matters of state where the gov't of the day has the sole responsibility

This article seems a reasonable summary :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/06/brexit-high-court-parliament-government-law

-=-=-

For me it is reasonable for the executive to "suggest" to parliament, to investigate and plan the course and goals of the agreements they may agree to, and would possibly to sign on behalf of the British Government and "all" the people of the UK.

In such negotiations which are intended it should not be dependent on one upmanship or who has the bigger cudgels.

The deal should be best for ALL involved, not some smart arses.

==-=-=-=

Anyway the article is interesting. (To me.)

If you read the previous article, scan this:

http://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-observer1702/20161106/282106341204247

I must check my portfolio!

The government should be under no obligation to go back to parliament,
having received the right to invoke article50 when they had the vote in
the H.O.P for a referendum(10-1 in favour).

When the result was for LEAVE, that meant the government could trigger
article50..

And after the appeal to the superior court i'm sure it will be remedied
and justice will be preserved, so long as the government gets its act
together and makes its case loud and clear, that parliament has already
been consulted and that there should be no further reason to consult the
H.O.P for permission to trigger article50...

fred - The deal should be best for ALL involved

patently not possible, or at least not for everyone or even anyone being happy with the end result, and for very obvious reasons ....... or at least that depends on how you wish to determine "best"

Time to Fast Track Article 50 and bring it forward to today. Then blow the bridges behind.

Sick to death of GUTLESS WONDERS like Clegg et al.

JFDI

Sounds like an outburst from D.T..

Does D.T. stand for Delirium tremens.

Nigel has gone on holiday and has taken the plans with him.

Congrats Donald

I think we ought to send that Queen Sophie Marceau with a few roman legions north of the border to sort things out...would have sent Bond as well but apparently a 007 is for Scottish independence ...chaos is what promises that Sturgeon !.....in past times she would she'd already be in the tower of London ready to be executed for high treason......

Yes, suppress the batards for wishing for a better society.

little fred 5817

"Yes, suppress the batards for wishing for a better society."

LOL!.. little fred fred attempting to show unity with the minorities..AGAIN!

He does not mention that sturgeon and her cronies can't run Scotland without the
support and subsidies of the rest of the UK, particularly ENGLAND..

And the only use sturgeon would be to the gangsters in Brussels would be to
'give head' to junker and fritz...