Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

By all accounts the boy clegg and along with the pro-eu
kinnocks are quite content to cling on to the shirt tails of the stagnant high
unemployment area of the EU, to facilitate their continuation of drawing their
EU pensions...

Wonder if they still get these pensions when the UK LEAVE?...

I would doubt it because the EU is on it's way out ,what happens if La Pen gets in and France were to leave ?

Yes the EU could be finished....SHAME!!! :D)

grannyboy - that's pretty clear and logical, so I'm at a loss as to why LEarned Judges got themselves involved in a do-gooder meddling in a process that had several million votes behind it.

Parliament, DC and several "others" should have taken a Neutral stance and waited for the Result - I suspect ( but can't know), that it was the "bullying" the voters received that did it.

Furthermore, FWIW, even if there were Lies damned lies and=or statistics painted on that Bus. The ONLY people who could complain would be those that voted to leave ( i.e. they were swayed only by the bus-message ), However, for anyone that "was swayed", they'd have to explain that they were not influenced by any other message - including the importing of the American President ( Why would he get himself involved, when the Government / DC et al had zero expectation we'd Vote Leave . . . and if anyone should be held to account it is DC who was in long-term power and had as many Advisors as anyone could wish for . . . yet still made no provision for Action after a "Leave" vote.

Get on with it and stop listening to the children that arrived late for red jellies. . . . . . . Phew !

If I may:-
Those EU Pensions should be replaced by UK pensions...the same that any retired person gets ( subject to Tax if you are wealthy enough, etc. ), so these Politico's can look GB-Public in the eye and strive for an improvement.
We worry about the young buying/renting a decent house - yet pensioners CANNOT afford to buy, because the Mortgage Industry is still geared for 20-somethings with a modest Deposit. Of course most have a house from earlier savings - hard won and expensive to maintain since most "Traders" can run when the job is almost finished.
Pensions-UK
I'd like to state a "Rule": For any source of pension-money anyone entitled to receive it should take the same amount.
-Companies cannot have a "pension fund" that pays Execs more than the workers . . . . note that the rule uses the word "Source" - which is the company - and it means no separate funds for "Workers" and the "Execs" since it is ultimately from one source.

The Scottish Question.... I think there should be a Ref. on the independence of Scotland - one person, on vote over the whole of the UK.... Also it should include the shortest time when another vote may be called: 1-5-10-25 years.
The IN/OUT parties can put forward their political views, costings etc. and could even run a program taking historical figures, say from the last TEN years ( so it MUST include the Recession, where Scotland received much finance. . . . RBS/HBOS maybe more...
It might be interesting for the Out Group to approach the EU and ask for Conditions for membership . . . or they could compare their financial/trade positions to other (recent) EU entrants . . . as one suspects Scotland would only be accepted to annoy the UK that is leaving.
It is odd that Scotland still clings to its money - this would be replaced by Euros and that should be spelled out to Voters.

The Irish Question
Sometimes we her about the problems of having an EU/UK border between N/S of Ireland - but we only have to look back a few decades prior to EU when there was a line - but almost no policing. If you were actively moving anything heavy you would be stopped on a main road . . . but individual cars where the people were "locals" would be free to move, provided it was noting unusual. Modern sensors/Cameras would be able to do a similar job, with little/no inconvenience to the folks on either side.... controlled by boarder guards at the major crossings. There might have to be a Weight/Size limit so containers of goodies can't escape tariff-money which would accrue to both sets of Government.
Tariffs:
I see no reason to apply a tariff , other than to "protect" home industries, so maybe on Chinese steel, or steels that come through the EU ( from China, etc.) which are damaging the UK-produced similar product . . . . An ecological reason is to reduce "Travel-Miles" . . . . If the EU imposes a Tariff on our goods into the EU, then we should impose the same on their similar produce. Since we hardly supply more than we buy, I can't see this is a real issue and having less paperwork should be good for everyone, since it adds Nothing to the value of the product.
+I wonder if the same might apply to VAT - replaced by a User-tax applied by the Shop/Supplier . . . this might get rid of the silly nonsense of advertisers quoting non-VAT prices because some of their customers are "Trade" - but the VAT is still applied, so where does that put the advertisement industry.

The Latest News As It Breaks
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BREAKING NEWS - Hedge fund Eclectica betting on break up of EU
Hendry says 10-yr bund-BTP spread part of EU blow-up trade
Estimates bet could net 30-35 pct gains
Scottish hedge fund manager Hugh Hendry is betting on a break-up of the European Union in a trade he said could deliver 30-35 percent gains, the Reuters Global Investment Outlook Summit heard on Monday.
Hendry, founder and chief investment officer of Eclectica Asset Management which has around $200 million under management, said European politics posed the biggest market risk of 2017, with an impending French election the most likely trigger of fresh market ructions.
"The biggest risk to the global economy is the acute and impending political crisis in Europe, which monetary policy does not have the tools to resolve," Hendry said.
Glasgow-born Hendry made his name in the depths of the financial crisis after posting positive returns in 2008 when many of his peers suffered steep losses.
There was a "very high" probability of French populist leader Marine Le Pen winning office, he said, while Dutch far-right politician Geert Wilders is also doing well, developments which could ultimately lead to a break-up of the EU, he said.
“People are banging the European blow-up trade right now," said Hendry, who founded his London-based firm 14 years ago after leaving Odey Asset Management.
Hendry said there were three legs to the trade, although he was only prepared to talk about one of them: the spread between 10-year Italian IT10YT=RR and German government bonds DE10YT=RR, which he expects to widen as stresses mount.
The spread, which he began buying earlier this year, widened to 180 basis points on Monday, a two-year high, up from 153 after the election last week of Donald Trump as U.S. president, and from 126 in mid-October.
The market's use of the spread as a gauge of sensitivity to the stability of the European Union was also seen earlier in the summer, after it blew out from 123 on the day of Britain's EU referendum to 153 the next day.
Hendry said a parallel could be drawn with Britain's withdrawal from the gold standard in 1931, when one key member leaving prompted others to follow. "Just one member leaves and it becomes extremely vulnerable," he said.

REUTERS

skipped through that but did not seem to say that eu would break up in what time span

The United Tory Party:

'There is no plan' for Brexit, leaked memo says
58 minutes ago
From the section UK Politics
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Union Jack flying at ParliamentImage copyrightAFP
The government has no overall Brexit plan and a negotiating strategy may not be agreed by the cabinet for six months, a leaked memo has suggested.
The memo - obtained by The Times and seen by the BBC - warns Whitehall is working on 500 Brexit-related projects and could need 30,000 extra staff.
However, there is still no common exit strategy "because of divisions within the cabinet", the leaked document adds.
A government spokesman said it "didn't recognise" the claims made in the memo.
Prime Minister Theresa May hopes to invoke Article 50 - beginning the formal two-year process for leaving the EU - by the end of March next year.
However, BBC political correspondent Chris Mason - who has seen the memo - says the document shows how "complex, fraught and challenging delivering Brexit will be".
Rolling updates on Brexit and other political developments
McDonnell: Government 'failing over Brexit'
Brexit: All you need to know
What has actually happened since Brexit?
The leaked Cabinet Office memo - written by an un-named consultant and entitled "Brexit Update" of 7 November - suggests it will take another six months before the government decides precisely what it wants to achieve from Brexit or agrees on its priorities.
The report criticises Mrs May, who it says is "acquiring a reputation of drawing in decisions and details to settle matters herself" - an approach it describes as being "unlikely to be sustainable".
The Times says the document also identifies cabinet splits between Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, Brexit Secretary David Davis and International Trade Secretary Liam Fox on one side, and Chancellor Philip Hammond and Business Secretary Greg Clark on the other.
According to the newspaper, the memo said: "Every department has developed a 'bottom-up' plan of what the impact of Brexit could be - and its plan to cope with the 'worst case'.
"Although necessary, this falls considerably short of having a 'government plan for Brexit' because it has no prioritisation and no link to the overall negotiation strategy."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948

Marine Le Pen will probably win ,as is there other similar parties who are getting a lot of support .
The problem is the polls/people (left wing) can't believe what's happening to their lovely multicultural melting pot ,open borders ,free movement . I think Europe's changing and fast ,i don't believe the EU will survive in it's current form .
The people are voting against the establishment because they have for too long not been listened to .

Well Freda you go on about no plans after Brexit but surely being in the EU meant we could have no plans in there because they ruthlessly tell countries what to do whether they like it or not . As witnessed by the appalling way they force migrants and any other wastes of space onto countries infrastructure etc . Take no notice of the people they are supposed to be representing and lump them with masses of unruly uneducated scroungers et al . Whilst covering up their wrongdoings to put it mildly .

Haha.. What gullible FOOLS those who believe in that FAKED 'leaked'
document are, and that includes the Brussels broadcasting corp..

It was most likely funded by the bint gina miller and other 'REMOANERS'..

This says it all...

"The leaked cabinet office memo" - written by an un-named 'consultant'..

Lolololololololololololol!!!!

Was written by a consultant at Deloittes accountants. Part of a pitch to get business. Not requested by government.

Yes and should never have been shown the light of day, but the pro-eu
arse licking media particularly the brussels broadcasting corp, were falling
over themselves to air their pro-eu bias, along with fools like haystack/fred
for bothering to promote it ..

Have you looked at your own reflection recently?

Fred1new 5833

"Have you looked at your own reflection recently?"


You've used that line before, and it wasn't funny then and its still not
funny now, but would appear to show your level of intellect , best if you
reverted back to posting cartoons...

.

Granny.

It wasn't intended to be a joke.

But I think if you pondered a little over your posts they may be a little more constructive rather than what seems to be a release of anger and abusive to those who have a differing opinion to your own.

That's a bit rich coming from you Fred, a man so bigoted he will only knock peoples ideas and never answer a question . The worlds changing get used to it..

Dumbo,

Thanks.

Is that what you mean.

PS.

Germany changed in the 30's.

Was that the sort of improvement you want?

Has everyone got a nick name in your world of dementia