Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

ISRAEL SHOULD BE MOVED TO THE USA.

i am sure it is no coincidence that Israel's invasion was timed to coincide with the last days of Bush's admin ..... true to form, Bush came out with strong support, no doubt as well-pressured by the Jewish lobby (cabal would be more apposite for all sorts of good reasons!) in NY ...... i suspect Obama will be less accomodating

Fred.decent people know what you are talking aboutbut I am afraid its lost on the others.funny enough I had a meeting and done some business with a guy in Hatton Garden last year funny enough some at the meeting talked rather similar to some on here.mind you the guy I personally done business with was a real diamond geezer!

Gausie,

Distraction from the argument once again!

I have never been a pacifist, nor state that I was. However, I would prefer non-violent means of resolving confrontation or arguments. But sometimes the use of force is necessary. However, disproportionate force is never justifiable in the eyes of the majority. That is why world public opinion is against Israel at the moment.

If you feel I am so out of touch, please relate to Greenstocks Argument or the following which seems to summarise the problem

Another interesting comment is below. (Perhaps, he again is irrational.)

09/01/2009 09:13 JOHANNESBURG, Jan 9 (AFP)
Middle East conflict shows need for UN reform: S.Africa
South African President Kgalema Motlanthe said Friday that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has underscored the urgent need to reform the United Nations.
"I agree that the UN, and the UN Security Council in particular, is in need of urgent reform in order to become more representative of the world's population," he said in an interview in the Mail and Guardian newspaper.
He said that the United Nations was not implementing its original mandate to give equal treatment and protection to all the countries.
"The problem is that if a country has powerful friends on the Security Council, they can sometimes act with impunity," Motlanthe said.
"All you have to do is listen to the minister of foreign affairs or defence of Israel to know that you are dealing with people who believe they can cock a snook with impunity."
Motlanthe said the veto powers enjoyed by the five permanent members of the Security Council also promoted selfish interests "which is contrary to the collective and principled mandate of the United Nations."
His remarks were published after the UN Security Council voted late Thursday to call for an "immediate, durable" ceasefire in the Gaza Strip leading to a full withdrawal of Israeli troops.
The United States, Israel's strongest ally on the council, abstained from the vote.
Murder and carnage is being carried out in the name of defence.

====================================


From listening to the spokesmen of many countries of the world the overall opinion is still as below.

Murder and carnage is being carried out in the name of defence.


It also seems that even the United States can no longer support Israels present actions.

cynic
Then Hamas should have had the policical sense to realise that israel would hit back hard while Bush was there and waited for a few weeks.

i suspect Israel were intent on the action anyway and would have found an excuse ...... common sense and compromise in M/E is a rare commodity, just as it is in India/Pakistan and the Balkans

Fred

Re "Distraction from argument" - what exactly is your argument?

Perhaps you can set it out clearly - you've been banging on about all sorts of different topics, and as soon as the inevitable happens and each argument is destroyed you move onto something different.

I think you're trying to say that you abhor the violence and destruction in the middle east and it should stop immediately. If that's it then I expect everyone here would agree with you. I certainly would. But that's all violence - the invasion *AND* the rockets. If the rockets were to be given up peaceably then that would be an end to the crisis - there is no question that Israel would immediately withdraw. However, Hamas are not giving up any rockets, and so the job the Israelis are doing must be finished to meet the stated objective - ie peace for all. Until the next time.

By arguing in favoor of one side or the other only helps to perpetuate the argument, as we said before ignore them and when the money runs out an ageement will be achieved.

and the lion shall lie down with the lamb!

cynic are you quoting from somewhere?

Yes, I wish for a non-violent settlement in the Middle East. One, which is fair to both sides.

If Hamas gives up its Rockets, will Israel give up it Nuclear Weapons and its rockets?

Will they adhere to the various United Nations mandates, which they have ignored over the last 20-30 years?

Will they allow a Palestinian to become self-governing viable state with free borders and access to the Med?

Will they restore land confiscated from the Palestinians?

Will it pay for the restoration of the infrastructure, which it has destroyed in Gaza?


My feelings are the Hamas rockets into Israel are an attempt to get the attention of the world to the ongoing abuses by Israel. I dont condone the actions but I understand the motivation and the frustration that the Palestinians have.

These are some of the points, which are being ignored.


I dont have any easy solution to the problem, but the present actions of Israel will not lead to a resolution, only prolong the trouble.

Just one more point Gauzie, the job must be finished. That seems to me to be the mind set of Hitler after Stalingrad.

it's actually a misquotation from Isaiah, but it's the one everyone knows - wrongly!

Martini

Bring me to the next Birmingham meet.

G

Agree with Fred's last post...

If there is NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE......

Agree with Fred's last post...

If there is NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE...... I wonder when Israel will realise this, or if they want to !!

Does he owe me a pint? Can't remember. If so I will try and be there.

Why would Israel give up it's nuclear weapons? Why should Isreal give up its nuclear weapons?

Why shouldn't Iran, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Libya develop Nuclear weapons etc.. Are these countries less civilised than Israel or America?

Is Israel the new super nation?

Fred1new ....would you like to see those countries all have the atomic bomb ? There are far too many countries with that capability......and the risks that the unthinkable could happen increases, let's be fair and say that those countries do not need such a burden and a burden it would become in the hands of unstable and unreliable governments !, if Hamas stop firing rockets and promise some peace then the madness will stop and the Israelis might be more inclined to help their present foes !.

RF. No I would prefer a world without Nuclear Weapons. Unlikely to ever occur. But I have never understood, why the big boys should have catapults and I couldn't.

This represents to me racial or even religious superiority, which is part of the problem in the Middle East and many other places. It is an arrogant position.