Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

The Labour manifesto wouldn't have contained anything sensible like that as it was full of garbage. Labour can safefully be ignored for at least a generation.

RATS DESERTING A SINKING SHIP!!

OR

IF WE CAN"T BEAT THEM LET"S JOIN THEM?


HYPOCRITICAL LEFT WHINGERS..... LABOUR 2015 LOL!!!!!


Bonfire of the policies as Labour challengers queue up to ditch Ed Miliband's legacy
Europe, mansion tax, tuition fees and Gordon Brown's deficit up for debate as would-be leaders tear up Miliband's platform



By Matthew Holehouse, Political Correspondent7:00AM BST 18 May 2015
Candidates for the Labour leadership have denounced Ed Miliband’s manifesto.
Opposition to the EU referendum, the mansion tax and a defence of Gordon Brown’s deficits were cast aside in what the Tories hailed as a “bonfire of the policies”.
Jon Cruddas, the co-author of the manifesto that led to Labour winning just 232 MPs and 30 per cent of the vote, said it was the worst crisis for the party since 1918. He called for the creation of a separate English Labour Party to win back voters who had deserted for the Tories and Ukip.
Andy Burnham emerged as the front runner after winning support from Rachel Reeves, the shadow welfare secretary regarded as the brightest of the 2010 intake and a friend of Chuka Umunna, who quit the race last week.


He was also backed by figures from across the party: Luciana Berger, another close friend of Mr Umunna; Michael Dugher, a former spokesman to Gordon Brown who has called for more “street fighters” in senior Labour ranks; Lord Falconer, Tony Blair’s former flatmate; and Ian Lavery, a leading socialist.
Combined with the likely union support, he is well-positioned to eclipse Liz Kendall, a Blairite shadow care minister, and Yvette Cooper, the shadow home secretary.
• Tony Blair's 1997 Cabinet: Where are they now?
Tristram Hunt, the shadow education secretary who is yet to officially declare he is running, and Mary Creagh, the shadow development secretary, are more distant prospects.
Today Harriet Harman, the acting leader, will announce that Labour’s leadership hustings will be held in Tory marginals in an attempt to connect with the voters that will decide the outcome of the 2020 election.



Ed Miliband strongly opposed David Cameron’s proposed EU referendum, saying it would destabilise British business.
But in a major u-turn, Mr Burnham called for the vote to be brought forward a year, and said the renegotiation should be far reaching to address public concern on immigration.
"The country has voted now for a European referendum and under my leadership the Labour party will not be a grudging presence on that stage. We will now embrace it. It should be brought forward to 2016," he said.
"If Cameron doesn't deliver legislative change in terms of abuse of the rules of free movement by agencies and the effect on people with jobs here, it won't be good enough. It really won't be good enough."
Liz Kendall also backed an early vote. “I think we should have the referendum, take on the argument early, strongly and passionately. Cameron is depressingly unambitious in his stance to the negotiations,” she said.
As shadow health secretary, Mr Burnham had repeatedly argued for Mr Miliband’s mansion tax, with the £1.2 billion in proposed revenue earmarked to increase the NHS payroll.


But in an attempt to present himself as a centrist, he yesterday washed his hands of the policy.
“I think we have got to get away from things that look like symbolism. I am going to put the mansion tax in that category. I am not saying it was necessarily completely the wrong thing to do, but in its name I think it spoke to something that the public don’t particularly like, which is the politics of envy,” he told the Observer.
He added that Mr Miliband’s infamous “predators versus producers” speech on business in 2011 was a “failure of communication”.
Ms Creagh said that Labour had “lost the argument with the British people on Europe” and called for a “fast” renegotiation.
She joined Mr Burnham and Mr Hunt in attacking the mansion tax. "It alienated a whole bunch of people who said we were against them getting on and doing well,” she said.
She said that instead of pledging to cut tuition fees by £3,000, Labour should have instead pledged to introduce free bus travel for teenagers, adding the manifesto was comprised of “micro policies”.


With the exception of Ms Cooper, a consensus has emerged among the contenders that Labour should not have run a deficit before the financial crisis.
“The last Labour government was adopting a careful approach, but we did let the deficit get too large,” said Mr Burnham.
“This bonfire of the policies is nothing more than a cynical attempt to distance Labour's wannabe leaders from their tarnished record,” said a Tory source.
Mr Cruddas, whose philosophical approach was regarded by some MPs as part of Mr Miliband’s problem, said Labour's defeat was the worst since 1918, when Labour won 57 seats and 21.5 per cent of the vote.
"Arguably, it's one of the great crises of the Labour Party's history," he told the BBC World At One.
“I argued that the 2010 defeat was actually the worst defeat in Labour history, since 1918. The defeat of 10 days ago was much worse. So this is profound.”
"We have to go on a journey of self discovery and that's not an abstract indulgent thing.
"We have to re-establish what is the purpose of the centre-left political party nowadays in terms of its economic strategy, its social strategy, its approach to questions of democracy, power, citizenship."
How the the candidates changed their tune
Andy Burnham in March
“We will tackle the NHS workforce crisis by recruiting 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more GPs, paid for by a mansion tax on properties worth over £2 million.”
Andy Burnham now
“I think we have got to get away from things that look like symbolism. I am going to put the mansion tax in that category. I am not saying it was necessarily completely the wrong thing to do, but in its name I think it spoke to something that the public don’t particularly like, which is the politics of envy.”
Mary Creagh in November 2014
“On every issue, from Europe, to green energy, as soon as the Tory right wing raises its head, the Tory leadership folds like a deckchair. David Cameron made meeting the 0.7 per cent aid target a symbol of the change he claimed to bring to the Tory party - a change that lies in tatters as they bang on about Europe and stand up only for a privileged few. "
Mary Creagh now
“It’s clear that we have lost the argument with the British people. They have voted in a Conservative government and we are going to have this referendum.”
Liz Kendall in January
“If, God forbid, the Tories were the biggest party again, what kind of country are we going to be? Cameron will be dragged to the Right by his own backbenchers let alone UKIP. We would be out of Europe."
Liz Kendall now
“I think we should have the referendum, take on the argument early, strongly and passionately. Cameron is depressingly unambitious in his stance to the negotiations.
Tristram Hunt, before the election
“A future Labour Government will have the right priorities for driving up school standards.
“A Labour Government will be relentless in focusing its education reforms on the demands of the future.
Tristram Hunt now
"I was disappointed that education fell below grab rails [for the elderly] in the Labour manifesto".
Yvette Cooper, November 2014
“The next Labour government will finish the job of balancing the books but we will do so in a fairer way by making different choices from the Tories.”
Yvette Cooper now
“We seemed too slow to really face up to the challenge - I think that's true in 2010 and in 2015 - that we needed to balance the books and live within our means. That was the real problem and that was the real reason why people didn't trust us on the economy.”

i'm voting and even contemplating campaigning for len mccluskey who surely has to be one of the best advertisements of why the voting public rejected labour's election manifesto - and that was a soft version of what mccluskey would now like to impose on the next labour puppet leader

i really hope tristram hunt decides to stand because mccluskey must loathe him on sight

Manuel,

Go back to the Thatcher period and the attempt of "privatisation", re-organisation, and change of "financing" of the Universities with their change of contracts etc..

Attempt at restructure of NHS without paying for it, and failing to replace worn out "infrastructure".

That, in a similar way applied to "education" in general. (PFIs introduced initially in that period.)

This is when part of the problems originated from and much of change of mood in universities, education and public services in general.

In any organisation changes of probably always necessary, but they have to be fully thought out and probably tested out on pilot schemes.

Not as rushes of blood to the head by short sighted politicians.

but i do not hear you telling us all what labour did to correct any of this
perhaps they did nothing and/or did more of the same making it all an even greater mess

Perhaps they built the necessary infrastructure.

But they also tried restructuring services or staffing without consideration and sufficient trials of pilot test out of repercussions of changes.

But this tory coalition government was lead by political and economic ideology and the present con party from its murmurings is going to do the same again.

One can only guess at the consequences.

Inside the Milibunker: the last days of Ed

The Labour leader's court kept its fantasy alive right to the end


Dan Hodges 16 May 2015






Ed Miliband was writing his victory speech on election night when the nation’s broadcasters announced the exit poll. He remained convinced — as he had been all along — that he was destined for No.10. In his defence, most people in Westminster thought the same. But within his ranks, a rebellion had already broken out. At 2 p.m. that afternoon, a member of his shadow cabinet had resigned — fearing not defeat, but the debacle that would follow Miliband’s success.


‘I was being briefed by Ed’s team about their post-election plans,’ the shadow minister told me. ‘It was nuts. They were explaining how there would be “no concessions”, no “tacking towards the centre”, nothing. The way the campaign had been run, the way his operation had been run, that would be the template for government. The whole Zen Labour thing. In the end, I lost it. I said to them, “Well, if that’s the way you’re going to do things, here’s where I get off’’.’

True to his word, Miliband stayed in his Zen-like state to the end. As one insider put it: ‘When he was working on his victory speech with Greg Beales [his speech writer] the exit poll was announced. They stopped, and someone came in and said, “Don’t worry, that poll’s wrong.” So they carried on writing.’

This is a tale of Labour’s downfall: the inside story of the party’s most catastrophic election campaign since the war. It’s a story of chaos, dysfunction and hubris.



The rest of the article is well worth a read:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9528312/inside-the-milibunker-the-last-days-of-ed-did-ed-miliband-sacrifice-ed-balls/

fred - nothing surprising i guess but STILL you do not say what 13 years of labour did to redress the alleged damage you say was done by MrsT et al

i don't recollect labour reversing anything, not even (anti) union legislation, but perhaps i've missed something

Manuel.

Suggest you reread your recent postings and assertions and then re-read mine.

As you say, you probably missing something and it would be better for all if you go back to waiting at table.

certainly more enjoyable and profitable than wading through your junk

PS.

Have a look at the schools and hospitals built under Maggie's period of disaster and labours period. Also look at the decline in the infrastructure over the last 5 years.

have a look at labour's own profligacy and tell us about how empty the coffers were when labour were kicked out into the street

when you've worked that out, tell us how you would have paid for a shedload of new infrastructure etc etc without pushing the country to the dire levels of greece, italy and even france

Lets not let facts get in the way of a good rant c!

Well when you have your heart attack, I hope there is a bed in the annex next to the morgue for you.

That the scanners and labs have been sold off to pay the debts.

The nurses and doctors are part timer agency staff and the paramedics are considering whether to walk out or not. Perhaps, emigrate to France or Germany or the "colonies".

fred - especially as you refuse to vote, you have got the gov't you deserve

though you have a right to whinge as much as not to vote, your posts might carry more or even some weight if you were not so prejudiced and entrenched in your views

every single post of yours is so left-wing biased and thus losing most merit that there might be
you never ever let yourself consider (a) that labour made a right royal mess in their 13 years and (b) that the coalition and now the conservatives on their own again, actually did quite a lot of things right, though of course with some humdingers of errors too

Fred must have the government that he wanted otherwise he would have voted.

No.

Nobody deserves a government as poor as this one will prove to be.

Perhaps, you should review your own prejudices and entrenchments.

I would suggest you are swallowing the poisonous propaganda from a party of con artists and a leader who you appear to idolise.

Look at the economic figures over the last 20 years with a pair of glasses on and they will make obvious the scale of economic mismanagement by the tory coalition government in the first 3 years of their period in supposed control.

As posted before all governments make mistakes but you appear to be in a state of denial!

But are you wiping out of memory, deficit and debt.

Go back to waiting.

Fred is what some call a Neo-cheat:

They merely ignore the topic and invent a new (often false) cause to defend with.

eg.

Q. You cannot tell the time, can you?
A. I haven't time to look at my watch, I'm a very busy person and I've got more important things to do.

And what is worse, a Neo-cheat does it again and again and again. So the only way to get anywhere with a Neo-cheat, because you will NEVER WIN ANY ARGUMENT, is to just dump him/her and cease the relationship completely.

See if you can spot how Fred immediately ignores the point at issue and merely jumps to the next (false/irrelevant) cause.