Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

what is the view of Socialist Worker?

David Miliband: Ed Miliband victory would have defied laws of political gravity
Former foreign secretary says his worst fears were confirmed when his brother led Labour to a devastating general election defeat


By Emily Gosden8:31AM BST 10 Jun 2015
David Miliband feared that Labour was "courting disaster" for years under his brother's leadership because it would have defied the "laws of political gravity" to win on his left-wing and risky agenda.
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In his strongest criticism yet of Ed Miliband's tenure, the former foreign secretary said that all his "worst fears were confirmed" when Labour suffered its devastating electoral defeat and claimed the party was deluded for running away from Blairite policies.
In an interview with The Times, Mr Miliband said: "I had spent the previous two or three weeks wondering whether in fact I was wrong to believe that you couldn't suspend the laws of political gravity because the polls obviously suggested that things were close, but ... the politics of our offer and our positioning made me very fearful of the consequences, and that was borne out."
Mr Miliband, who lost out to his younger brother in the 2010 Labour leadership election, said that its array of left-wing policies such as rent controls and the energy price freeze were together "unpopular" and that the party "needed to be more centrist".

"You don't want to be the risk in politics, and you doubly don't want to be the risk if you are the opposition," he said.
Mr Miliband stood down as an MP in 2013 and moved to America to run the International Rescue Committee charity in New York.
Despite criticising the policies his brother pursued Mr Miliband said: "I don’t want him to be hurt and I don’t want him to be vilified."
He said the defeat had been "doubly painful" because it was his brother and there was "no consolation in any sense of vindication" because he cared about the country the Labour party.

Mr Miliband said Labour lost because "people perceived us to have gone back on the New Labour settlement".
"We should liberate ourselves from the delusion that running away from three election victories is a route to success," he said. "It's 50 years since Labour won a majority at a general election without Tony as leader. It's important to have this in mind."
Mr Miliband refused to rule out a return to frontline UK politics and has already announced plans for a major speech in London in October, just weeks after the new Labour leader is due to be appointed.
He told the newspaper he was committed to his job in New York but was taking "some time to think" about what he did next.
He declined to say which candidate he was backing in the Labour leadership contest.

Probably opposite to the Blue Telegraph and Mail and other neo-con, or fascist right winged toilet paper.

Andy Burnham is booed by trade union delegates over welfare cuts
Favourite for Labour leadership stumbles over price of petrol during GMB hustings

By Rosa Prince, Assistant Political Editor, Dublin5:56PM BST 09 Jun 2015 Comments85 Comments
Andy Burnham’s bid to become Labour leader faltered after he was booed by trade union delegates over welfare cuts and stumbled when asked the price of petrol.
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The favourite for the Labour leadership, who is widely seen as the candidate with the backing of the unions, was given a rough ride as he appeared at a hustings event organised by the GMB in Dublin.
Asked to give a straight yes or no answer to whether he backed Conservative plans to cap benefits at £23,000 a year, Mr Burnham equivocated, saying: “In principle, it’s not right that people on benefits get more than they are likely to earn in a lifetime.”


Pushed whether that meant he backed the cap, the shadow health secretary refused to say yes, leading to boos from delegates.
Two weeks ago, in a speech in London, Mr Burnham had indicated that he was prepared to support cuts, saying Labour couldn’t afford to be “soft” on those who wanted something for nothing.
But he and rival Yvette Cooper were both booed after appearing unwilling to give a clear answer to the trade unions delegates, whose votes could prove crucial in deciding the outcome of the contest.
Mr Burnham came to further grief when candidates were asked for the cost of a series of every day items.
After hesitating for some time, he suggested that petrol was £1.60 a litre, an answer greeted by mumbles of disbelief in the room. According to the AA, the current UK average for a litre of unleaded petrol is £1.16.
In contrast, his main rivals Miss Kendall and Mrs Cooper, knew the price of a television licence and came close to correctly identifying the minimum wage for an apprentice.
His stumble served to undermine Mr Burnham’s claim to delegates that he was “in touch” with his working class roots, and was reminiscent of David Cameron’s 2013 failure to name the cost of a loaf of bread. The prime minister famously said he didn’t know because he used a bread maker.

In contrast, rivals Liz Kendall and Mary Creagh both said they supported the cap, while left winger Jeremy Corbyn opposed it.

Mr Burnham said: “I went from a Merseyside comprehensive to Cambridge and to the cabinet, but I never forget where I came from.
“I know what working class representation is all about – solidarity; the values of where I came from.
“I am somebody who is true to my roots, my values, the people who put me where I am today.
“If you chose me, that won’t change. That will be the man standing as your leader of the Labour Party.”.
Mr Burnham’s status as the race’s union candidate was underlined after emerged that he spoke to Len McCluskey, he leader of the powerful Unite union, as recently as last week.
He told Sky News: "I spoke to Len McCluskey about a week ago but only to speak about the race. Let's remember trade unions bring together the donations of millions of ordinary people and give them a voice.”


The bookies’ favourite also praised outgoing leader Ed Miliband, and denied the manifesto Labour stood on at the election had been too left-wing.
"I say it was the best manifesto that I have stood on in four general elections that I stood for Labour,” he said. “I pay tribute to Ed Miliband. He did something important on refocusing our party on inequality.”
Mrs Cooper, who is third favourite with the bookies, told delegates it was time that Labour was led by a woman, saying: “We know David Cameron has a women problem so maybe it’s time to give him an even bigger one. Why not elect our first Labour woman leader and our first woman prime minister?”



comments
Obviously the unions are running the process as some sort of pub quiz asking general knowledge questions. Why should anyone know the price of petrol ? I don't. Can't see why it's relevant.


The Labour party need a new leader, how about a women and how about an ethnic women? I propose Diane Abbott. Come on Labour please demonstrate to us that you are the party of the people who represent women and ethnic minorities.
Why pick someone white middle aged with a privileged background when you can have Diane Abbott?


I now know why this bloke has such a big mouth! he needs one so he can get both his feet in it at once!

"Carry on Canvassing" the labour gang in a riotous comedy about attempting to get relected!!!!!


When Brown abolished the 10 per cent introductory tax rate Burnham, the Treasury Secretary no less, went on the Today programme and told John Humphrys that EVERYONE - his word, no qualifications - would be better off because of the basic rate reduction from 22 per cent to 20.
-It was already clear to the rest of the country that Brown had actually made a dreadful error by doubling the rate for the poorest taxpayers.
-Burnham was either incompetent or telling porkies.


I bet he knows the price of Prosecco though. And the lying b*sterd did not go to a Merseyside Comprehensive. He is from Clucheth - what Alderley Edge is to Salford.

Socialist Worker Party Newspaper

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/

Billions more in cuts on way - let's make the Tories extinct

Slasher Tory chancellor George Osborne unveiled £3 billion more cuts last week - on top of the £13 billion cuts already planned.

The cuts will hit public services including education, transport and local government. They will make it even harder for councils to deliver key services such as social care.

Together with the selloff of the government's remaining shares in Royal Mail, Osborne hopes to make a total of £4.5 billion in "savings".

The cuts are three times higher than Osborne's Office for Budget Responsibility predicted.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies said the Tories were "misleading" over the scale of the cuts in their manifesto.

It said the Tories would need to slash £33 billion a year to meet their promise to cut the deficit - not the £13 billion previously claimed.

Osborne's budget on 8 July could unveil even more. The Tories hope to drive through savage cuts fast.

They have raised the stakes. We need to do the same.

Trade unionists say to Labour, ‘Stop copying Tory austerity’

The news that left Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn had put his name forward in the Labour leadership election cheered many trade unionists and socialists.

Blairites from the Labour right have dominated the debate about the way forward after the party’s defeat in May’s general election.

Liz Kendall refused to denounce the Tories’ latest cuts package. Yvette Cooper accused her of “swallowing the Tory manifesto”.

Yet she backs a benefit cap and thinks people on benefits should be forced into compulsory jobs.

Interim Labour leader Harriet Harman even said many Labour voters are “relieved” that Labour is not in government.

Such views offer nothing to workers looking to Labour to take on the Tories.

Jim Carlin, a Bfawu union member from Glasgow, told Socialist Worker that Labour should be “more supportive of trade unions and vote for left wing candidates”.

He added, “There needs to be debate in the unions about the future of the Labour Party because the Blairites keep coming to the fore.”

Jeremy Corbyn told Socialist Worker that Labour lost the general election because its “fundamental economic message was that austerity in a lighter form would carry on” (see right).

Nominations

However Corbyn had won 11 nominations, as Socialist Worker went to press far below the minimum 35 needed by 15 June to in order to stand.

It’s a sign of the weakness of the Labour left that getting on the ballot rests on securing “excess” nominations from other candidates.

Some in Labour want a genuine debate. Others would like to see Corbyn included because they believe it would make Andy Burnham seem a more credible alternative to the Blairites.

Burnham is the favoured candidate of the big unions—despite Corbyn’s record of fighting cuts and supporting workers’ rights.

New rules mean members of trade unions affiliated to Labour must opt in to have the right to vote.

Burnham seeks to distance himself from the right. But he doesn’t want the label of being the candidate of the left or the unions.

He has publicly shunned trade union financial support.

GMB union member Scott Robertson from Rochdale was a delegate at GMB conference this week (see page 19).

He told Socialist Worker, “You listen to Andy Burnham—he is not left wing. Most people in this room would vote for Jeremy Corbyn. But would the Labour Party support him? Probably not.”

Like many workers, Scott was frustrated with talk of Labour being too left wing.

“Labour needs to put clear water between it and the Tories,” he said. “It needs to say, ‘This is where we stand and we’re not going to change our minds to get a few more votes’.”

The EU referendum bill goes to the committee stage on 16 June, then there is the report stage and the 3rd reading and then its off to the Lords. There is no opposition at all so far. It should be law very soon.

Hays - do you think that ministers should be unshackled from "follow the leader" once the referendum campaigns start?

It is difficult as there is the ministerial code involving collective cabinet responsibility. The convention is that if you publicly speak against cabinet policy then you have to leave. After any new concessions from the EU, the government will choose which side it is on and campaign for that view. That will become the official government position and the cabinet will therefore have to support it. Of course, we know right now that the view will be to stay in. I would like to see ministers free to choose sides for themselves, but I can't see it happening. It was the same situation on the previous referendum on Europe. The government campaigned actively pro Europe.

it didn't need the preamble :-)

as this is a countrywide free vote - aka a referendum - then i think any mp has the right to speak as he feels

however, if a minister decides he wants to campaign against the gov't's stance, then he should have the courage of his convictions and resign from cabinet
less tautologically - on reflection, i also think the cabinet needs to campaign as an entity

The preamble was for the benefit of people who don't know about the ministerial code convention.

cyners - 10 Jun 2015 12:42 - 60737 of 60738
it didn't need the preamble :-)

Assuredly. Why do the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind?

it is now is coming to light of fifa fixing football matches .
with players

quite right hils ..... i've actually been a bit preoccupied today so was not my usual succinct self :-)

You are rambling as per usual!

I reckon you should get an invite to cynics place for Christmas Fred ..

Jb,

Please don't write such things, I already have enough nightmares.

8-)

we always go away just in case fred turns up uninvited :-)

Which day do you go.

I will take a look around.

-[8-)

Fred's house