Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I suspect, but cannot know, that trying to negotiate with Europe will be difficult. The notion that all EU Countries must agree, means ( Like we witnessed in 2016?) that any one can have its papers "lost" , or out of order - and the deal fails. If EU had elected big-wigs then they could take the vote, amongst say five, or six, who represent the different factions - this might mean that you'd see different faces with each provision:- like Cars/machinery -and- Financials ( It will be a long list ).
BUT if we give them our stance first.... we mirror your Tariffs then if we start at zero, that means neither side needs to gather an new recruits of accountants and (financial)border-guards.... which saves time/money for both sides.
IF, however, they want to impose tariffs, then we should reciprocate so the NET-costs balance out . . . this could mean that some exporting EU-countries will become "Victims" -even if they aren't Importers..... MY suggestion avoids this . . .we all trade without tariffs. (Er, perhaps with the proviso "no-dumping")
As others here have concerns about that £60bn..... perhaps we can:- release this "Leaving Geld" in stages, over say 10-years to keep them to their word, whatever happens in the EU . . . which I suspect is in for MIGHTY big changes soon . . . . SO we should get "OUR" agreement in before then.
USA
It will be interesting to see how Mrs May ( UK_PM), is received by USA President Trump.... as he's in fairly hot water for what he's been saying on Twitter..... let's hope he soon changes into a Statesman and doesn't try to pull the wool over MrsM's eyes . . . . you will recall she did say: No Deal is better than a Bad Deal - so I'm marginally hopeful we shall get a deal with USA dated for the day after BREXIT.

. . . . Interesting times, with so much changing about. . . . .

Why we have to get out of the EU - and very quickly too!

Shocking security flaw means terrorists could travel from Europe to Britain PASSPORT FREE

TERRORISTS could be travelling to Britain without ever having their passport checked in a shocking security flaw, it has been claimed.

From: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/757636/Europe-to-Britain-PASSPORT-FREE-Eurostar-Schengen-zone-travel

By ZOIE O'BRIEN, Daily Express
PUBLISHED: 08:10, Mon, Jan 23, 2017 | UPDATED: 10:25, Mon, Jan 23, 2017

Passports are not being checked for Eurostar
Tickets are being bought for the Eurostar without any checks - and passengers can continue to the UK

The loophole on the Eurostar allows foreigners to board a train within Europe without showing any ID, before travelling on to Lille in France.

And as they travel onwards to Britain, which is not in the Schengen zone, passports are rarely ever checked, an investigation found.

Trains between Brussels and Lille do not require ID after the visa-free travel arrangements were implemented, although anyone travelling on to Britain should be stopped under the regulations.

France and Belgium, as well as 26 European states, and a few non-European, have abolished border control under the Schengen agreement, allowing visa-free travel.

In 2011 what is known as the ‘Lille loophole’ was exposed for the first time leading to a clampdown by Eurostar and the UK Border Agency.

Passengers who have not shown a passport can end up in the UK - it is claimed
It was insisted the flaw had been fixed - yet a Daily Mail investigation found security has broken down again.

One commuter told the paper: “In more than 200 trips on the Eurostar to London, I have only been asked to show my passport about five times.”

The Mail reports a journalist was able to travel between Brussels and London without showing ID by buying a monthly pass and paying just £2.60 a journey – raising the terrifying prospect that people-smugglers could use the pass to buy tickets for terrorists and crooks.

Lib Dem MP John Pugh said: “This loophole threatens our national security. It is the soft underbelly for terrorism.”

Tickets are bought for Lille, in France from Brussels where there have been terror attacks

Immigration requirements are defined and controlled by the relevant authorities in each country that we operate in, and we work very closely with these authorities
Eurostar

Eurostar said every country the service operates in works together and security guards ensure all passengers making the Brussels-Lille journey travel in a separate carriage.

The company insisted those who are ticketed only to Lille are made to disembark there.

Eurostar said: “Immigration requirements are defined and controlled by the relevant authorities in each country that we operate in, and we work very closely with these authorities to ensure that our services operate within their legislation.

“For passengers travelling between Brussels and Lille, the authorities have put a special arrangement in place.

“This allows Brussels-Lille passengers to travel in a separate coach controlled by security guards, who then ensure that all of these passengers disembark at Lille before the train goes on to the UK.

“For the 5.56pm train, which is the most popular commuter service, the border authorities have chosen to operate a slightly different process whereby the train is only bookable by season-ticket holders who do not have to travel in a separate coach.

“This was agreed because they are a defined group with ID and contact details checked when buying their season ticket.

“In addition, the UK border authorities regularly undertake random immigration checks on arrival at London St Pancras.”

That won't change when we are out of EU

Are you building a wall between N/S Ireland?

Is Maybe going to ask Trump for building instructions.

Go back to sleep Fred .

Court result at 9.30 am , BBC getting their remoaners at the ready with the usual .

Sure one is a Dumbo.

l

BALLS UP AGAIN .

Of course Fred would not be pleased that Churchill's bust is back in the Oval Office he hates Great Britain .
Go back to sleep Fred.

Thanks Iturama....cheers for that...might get you on baked beans variety number 57.....what is 56 and 58 about ?....

Dumbo.

Like you Trump is clinging to the past.

Well the government lost the right to trigger article50 without going
back to parliament....


BUT THE DEVOLVELED GOVERNMENTS OF SCOTLAND, N.IRELAND, ETC
DOES NOT HAVE TO BE CONSULTED...

But this decision shows you that money and foreigners can stop the will
of the majority...

Along with those MP's who before the referendum voted nearly 10-1 to
have that referendum, which by its definition meant that the government
COULD trigger article50, by this ruling it means THOSE THICK INCOMPETANT
MP's are now displaying their lack of understanding and intelligence...

THINK ABOUT THIS THE NEXT TIME THEY WANT YOUR VOTE!!!..

I think we should re run the Appeal and only appoint 3 judges as it's obvious the other 8 didn't know what they were voting for :-)

Looney SNP and Plaid Cymru already moaning !

Strange that the vote was 8 - 3 , you'd think all would be in agreement as it's law .

Well, I can see the aged lager louts won't like that decision!

LARGER louts eh what about the smaller ones then .

How does this work ?.....as a MP : do you vote with the majority that voted for Leave even if the situation is that that MP voted for Remain ?.....or if in that MP's constituency the Leave vote had a majority, do you go along with that ?...or if in that constituency : the Remain camp had the upperhand and you voted for Leave, where does that lead to ?...interesting dilemma non ?....it seems that this ruling by the judges has led to a moral conscious issue to be dealt with by parliament.....who pays for this ruling by the way ?...the tax payer as usual ?....could all add up to an expensive waste of time...

Vicky,

Well spotted.

Never bothering again to vote.