Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

as i have been away in sunny aberdeen for a couple of days, can someone please give me a brief synopsis of what i have been missing.

do i take it that there is some newsreel or other reliable(?) reporting of israeli excesses or similar?

Still won't face up to it Fred, will you? Did you like the bit in the Hamas charter advocating more bloodshed -- in fact, advocating nothing but bloodshed and dismissing all attempts at negotiation?

Don't you dare accuse me of advocating bloodshed.

Fred, you have incredibly blinkered vision. Why can you only see things from the perspective that you want to see them from. Things are not that black and white and never will be.

You consider the latest Gaza issue to be a major catastrophe. Look at the news reports from Zimbabwe, now over 3000 dead from cholera. I have no doubt 100% of those could have been saved if it wasn't for Mugabe. Probably 3000 people who would have loved to see Zimbabwe as it once was and would have worked very hard to achieve it. Why can't we simply remove the problem - Mugabe? The palestinian people are a different issue, few of them want to create anything. They would rather wollow in self pity as the worlds oppressed. Can we remove their problem - Hamas? What good would it do?

You are dreaming if you think the middle east is about to become 'sensible'. It simply cannot happen while Hamas & Co preach hate. Even if this lot had no 'western' targets they would just go on killing each other. It is feudal.

I have been tempted to look in here again by a poster telling me about the sensible comments being posted.
I do not read Fred's posts any longer as they are too bigoted and so boringly repetitive and his condescending, superior and arrogant blinkered manner are not irritating, so much as rather sad; a waste of precious time even glancing at them.

I used to be a member of Amnesty International until I realised some years ago the sort of people who run it, their leanings and their politics.
We also used to have a neighbour who worked for Christian Aid and his attitude was the same. I remember on one occasion he was in our house and we were watching the news and Palestinian women in Gaza were celebrating in the streets at the murder of 3,000 people on 9/11. His comments were sympathetic to them.
He ceased to be welcome in our home.
These, of course, are merely anecdotal observations and carry no validity beyond personal experience.
Which brings me to a letter in The Times today from a professor at Swansea University which confirms that personal experience.

From The Times
January 28, 2009
Sir, Andrew Roberts is quite right. Oxfam and others are politically motivated and use natural humanitarian concern as a stick to beat Israel, profiting from their status as charities with their apparent neutrality. Oxfam, however, is not alone in this, and many charities, especially so-called green charities, are doing the same thing taking a political stance while pretending to be loftily detached from the business of politics. It is time that government considered anew the question of who gets charitable status.
Professor John France
Director, Callaghan Centre for Conflict Studies

I suggest you cast your minds back to the bigotry of the Northern Ireland problems.

The same sort of positioning and rants. Never be peace in Northern Ireland.

Look again.

Peace will come in spite of much of what is written above.

By the way:-

The Gaza appeal is once again.


http://www.dec.org.uk/

Fred, are u a sadist? do you get a kick out of annoying people?

I will strike a deal with you re the gaza appeal, if you can assure me that those terrorists that you prefer to call hamas wont get a penny of donated money and it will all go to innocent civilians etc ,i will happily donate,
But i want proof of how the money will be distributed by this appeal etc, now trot along Freddie boy , go and get some conclusive proof for me and i will oblige,cant say fairer than that,

i dont expect a reply, but stranger things have happened,

I doubt that peace will last in Ireland either. The current generation are too old to fight anymore. However, when the republicans realise that they have been conned and power sharing won't lead to a united Ireland then the trouble will start again.

I agree with that Haystack.

Ruth, is gazza still short of cash. I didn't know he had hamas contacts. Better be careful with what i say :)

Mr Charts, like you I believe all the big charities are more political than they make out.

Fred, please try to convince me why i should hand over my hard earned cash to help the palestinians when their ruling elite 'hamas' seems to have more than enough money to cloth, feed and house them.

Israel seems to have fallen for the same trick as they did with hezbollah. Hamas annoy Israel long enough so they retaliate and hamas can then buy peoples allegiances with all of this 'rebuilding' money they must have found down the back of the sofa.

rawdm999, its this bloody keyboard, it has a mind of its own;-)

And congratulations to the BBC and Sky for refusing the DEC appeal and resisting pressure. The BBC should get credit when it's due - and that's rare enough.
The billions that have been contributed by Saudi, the Gulf States, the EU, the UK, the US AND EVEN Israel have been wasted in the past. The majority has been spent on arms, rockets, salted away in Swiss bank accounts, mass corruption, 4x4s for Hamas and so on. A small minority has been spent on food, drugs etc. Virtually zero on infrastructure.
People's decent feelings of humanity are being manipulated and exploited by the scenes of damage and injury so that Hamas can continue accumulating funds with just a trickle getting through in actual relief. But never mind, what you will see on your TV screens will be that small amount getting through, whilst the rest is creamed off - just as always.

The sooner Hamas goes the better. Then there will be a chance for peace.
If they stay, all they have to do is renounce violence, stop the rockets and put that into effect and renounce their demands to kill all Jews and drive them out of Israel.
Then a peace settlement will gradually come, just as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
Otherwise bloodshed will continue.
Sad, but inevitable.

Fred has made a knob of himself on this thread (imo!)
If anyone was in 2 minds, as to giving to this cause he champions or not, i'm sure his blinkered nonsense has made their mind up, and like me...they will give nothing.

Does anyone expect the West to sit down with Al Qaeda and negotiate a "peace settlement"?
So why expect Israel to "negotiate" its own destruction with Hamas or Hizbollah?

The woodwork is emptying!

"
Mr Charts.

"I used to be a member of Amnesty International until I realised some years ago the sort of people who run it, their leanings and their politics.
We also used to have a neighbour who worked for Christian Aid and his attitude was the same."

Sir, Andrew Roberts is quite right. Oxfam and others are politically motivated and use natural humanitarian concern as a stick to beat Israel, profiting from their status as charities with their apparent neutrality.
If you hold such opinions of the above bodies, you can see why your views on the Middle East problems are irresolvable.

I would think they would be happy to lose your support.

Fortunately, other than for a minority of people of a similar ilk, the general opinion of the above bodies is very high, as they are dedicated to relieving pain and misery of millions of less fortunate people than us.

It seems American position related to Israel is changing and in the present economic
situation they will reduce the subsidies and economic aid to the State of Israel.

I will wait with interest to see how pans out.

'It seems American position related to Israel is changing and in the present economic situation they will reduce the subsidies and economic aid to the State of Israel.'

Ha Ha! I do believe Mr Obama has given plenty of top jobs to those of the Jewish faith. One of whom is a first generation immigrant. Can't remember his name. Do you really think they are going to watch the Israelis back home suffer. Jeez!

'Fortunately, other than for a minority of people of a similar ilk,' I think you might find the majority tend to remain silent. It is the minority pressure groups who shout loudest.

Have you heard, when Barack offers an olive branch to Iran, Mr Azabinabadlad demands an apology. Get a Grip. edit - the last thing these people want is peace.

Raw,

"It is the minority pressure groups who shout loudest."

"Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings."


laku noć

Interesting way to sign off Fred, are you sure your're Welsh? Good Night.

hope you all wont mind me joining in.clearly you are all interested and concerned,as am i.
anyway maybe some might find the following of worthy of consideration. maybe not.
jew or israeli or should that be israely? i dont know. that is no disrespect intended, i simply dont know.
anyway having read karen's book of the history of god, her bibliography shows or explains that es = born of.
she also confirms that the old god of the caananites being the people that moses led out of egypt was el. es/el might therefore be born of the god of the caananites, that perhaps was represented by the golden calf, perhaps not. that it is accepted that moses was brought up and aware of all the teachings of egypt seems to be believed and accepted by most scholars.
moses created a new nation. did he create a new god? es plus el ?
having been educated in the royal court of egypt did he also include these teachings? the god of egypt being ra and putting the god ra at the centre of all things. put it together and what do we have?
es- ra -el with ra at the centre,
a new religion or simply a new nation?
can the story confirm the reality?
anyone like to comment ?
regards
jkd

Check the genetic makeup of the Palestinians and those living in Israel calling themselves Israelis.

Check the English genes as well. They really are a wild bunch.

Leave the Welsh alone as they are not at war with anybody for a week or so.

But the genes of my wife's and my offspring would be very interesting.

F1
was that a reply to my post ,or someone elses?
ta
regards
jkd