Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Don't you mean to make it better? Cornyn is finding out that what goes around, comes around.

Don't you mean to make it better? Cornyn is finding out that what goes around, comes around.

So what's happened to the 'Help thread' then?

In a few years time, I would think Labour will be happy to have voted the way they did last night.

Putting a pin in a getting a slow leak!

.

Another 37 Labour MPs didn't turn up to vote. 16 of them were on official business and the other 21 just stayed away. Corbyn originally threatened them with the sack and then backed down when they wouldn't give in.

Sounds a little like the likely vote by the con artists, when they come to vote on staying in the EU or not!

-=-=-=-=-=-=


But, I think every vote in government by an MP should be that of a vote "conscience" and not that a vote according to the hierarchy of a party, media, or donors to the party.

The vote should be based on the validity of facts and argument!

CORBYN
if the newspaper headline i saw this morning is correct - JC to upbraid the chinese president or whoever at a state banquet over china's lack of human rights, shows me that he has no idea (a) about decorum = time and place for everything and (b) having a proper sense of priorities

it's fine being a loose cannon as a backbencher, but absolutely not if you are to be taken seriously as a potential prime minister either by those at home or on the wider world stage

Yes,

I think he ought to learn to kowtow to his superiors!

That would improve the opinion of England throughout the world and that it can't be pushed around.

cynic

The story is that Corbyn is using the threat of trouble at the banquet as a lever to have a private meeting with the Chinese premier. That sort of a meeting would not be usual in a state visit.

I think the fallout from Corbyn attacking the Chinese at a state banquet would be massive. The Foreign Office, the Diplomatic Corps and senior civil servants would be after blood. It wouldn't go down well with the public as it would show the hospitality of the UK in a bad light as well as being an insult to the Queen. On balance I would like Corbyn to do it as he would be toast.

thanks hays ..... i think it was the indy headline that i saw quickly while walking past a newspaper stand

while china's human rights record may well be pretty bad - as it is in many countries - i would have thought it very strange for the leader of the opposition to be granted a private audience with another country's leader, especially as its primary purpose would presumably be to upbraid him in no uncertain manner

The human rights violations of countries are a problem. We have two choices. We can shout at them from a distance, impose sanctions, refuse to trade with them. This may work with counties that are on the small side and unstable. Here, we are talking about China which is a country that is oblivious to such tactics. We have chosen the alternative of engagement and trade. That route brings us closer to the country and we may have some influence longer term. It may or may not work, but shouting at China from a distance is a waste of time.

while we and others may regard some actions by certain countries as "human rights violations", their politest response would be along the lines of MYOB

thus, if someone in saudi makes alcohol and is then (i'ld guess) en route to supply others, do we really have a right to object if the punishment meted out is no less than would apply to one of that country's own?

similarly, trafficking drugs in thailand or singapore or other far eastern countries

Besides we need to sell more of London and other businesses to the Chinese, or Russians, or the Eskimos.

Goof capitalist principles.

Good for the UK and then we can all live in Austria.


Mind I don't mind if the buy the Thames valley.

Looked scruffy last time I was there!

And that tramp on the pavement with his hat in front of him was "just too much!"

OH NO!!!! CORBYN MUST STAY LOL!!!!

Jeremy Corbyn is 'incompetent' and has 'lost control', shadow minister says
Exclusive: Shadow minister turns on 'incompetent' Jeremy Corbyn and warns it is only a matter of time before members of his team quit

By Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor1:50PM BST 15 Oct 2015
Senior members of Jeremy Corbyn's own team say he has "lost control" over his own party and it is only a matter of time before he suffers his first resignation from the shadow cabinet.


On Wednesday night the Labour leader allowed members of his ministerial team to defy him by avoiding a crucial Commons vote just hours after threatening them with the sack if they rebelled.

In a sign of Mr Corbyn's lack of authority it emerged that senior Labour MPs had been given permission to be absent and abstain from voting against Conservative proposals to run a budget surplus.
A total of 21 MPs directly defied Mr Corbyn, including former ministers Tristram Hunt, Liz Kendall and Chris Leslie. A further 16 were given permission to be absent, including four shadow ministers.
One of the shadow ministers given permission to miss said that Mr Corbyn's handling of the party has been "incompetent".

The shadow minister said: "He has got no control over his party but he doesn't seem to care. It is only a matter of time before there's a resignation, it's inevitable.
"It will not be a big thing that slips him up, he and his team are not thinking ahead of anything. This isn't just about politics, it's about his competence."
Mr Corbyn is expected to offer free votes on Trident and extending air strikes to Syria amid concerns that he will face a mass rebellion if he fails to do so.
A total of 21 MPs directly defied Mr Corbyn, including former shadow ministers Tristram Hunt, Liz Kendall and Chris Leslie.
Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, Yvette Cooper, the former shadow home secretary and Chuka Umunna, the former shadow business secretary, were among those who backed Mr Corbyn.
Sources close to Mr Corbyn confirmed that shadow cabinet ministers and MPs had been given permission to abstain from voting on the deficit proposals, but insisted it was because they were on "on other business".


The decision to allow MPs to abstain came after a major policy reversal by Mr Corbyn. John McDonnell admitted the reversal had been "embarrassing", adding that he had been "trying to out Osborne Osborne".
The vote came as Mr Corbyn suffered yet more indecision.
He was said to be undecided over whether or not to wear White Tie to a state banquet next week, which will be hosted by the Queen in honour of the Chinese President.
The Labour leader has accepted an invitation to Tuesday's dinner at Buckingham Palace in honour of President Xi Jinping of China but his wife, Laura Alvarez, has declined to attend. Mr Corbyn is expected to confront the Chinese President over his human rights record.
The party also reversed its position of blanket opposition to air strikes against Isil in Syria by suggesting it could support military action without UN support.


The fiscal charter U-turn
Chancellor George Osborne proposed a charter that commits the government to a budget surplus by 2019/20 and ensures debt keeps falling. Here's what the shadow chancellor had to say:
On 25 September, 2015:
“We will support the charter. We will support the charter on the basis we are going to want to balance the books, we do want to live within our means and we will tackle the deficit.” (The Guardian)
On 12 October, 2015:
"We will underline our position as an anti-austerity party by voting against the charter on Wednesday.” (Letter to Labour MPs)
Explaining the U-turn
"Labour will tackle the deficit. We are not deficit deniers. I haven't changed my mind on that. But I have changed my mind on the parliamentary tactics. I went to Redcar and I met the steel workers and I had families in tears about what has happened to them as a result of the government failing to act, failing to intervene. I came back and I realised ... that people are actually going to suffer badly and it brought it home to me. I don't want the Labour party associated with this policy." (Sky News)

John McDonnell is right on Redcar.

You have to look a little further into the future when dealing with strategic assets.

A very long way into the future. Steel prices will stay low for a long time. There is far too much capacity.

Not so, Max.

The thing that's needed is to be able to buy steel at the right price as and when you need it.

If you own a plant like Redcar, what's the point if you can't sell what you make and yet you have to keep the plant up and running until 'god knows when' and the market picks up?

If there were signs that the market was going to pick up, then a buyer for Redcar would more easily appear on the horizon. But there aren't and so one hasn't.

And the cost of 2000 direct jobs, plus any number of support jobs will be?

What are the people of Redcar and surrounds to do for a crust?


As for when the market picks up....well, what about it? The plant wont exist...too late.

Short sighted...very!