Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

I agree with that Haystack.

Ruth, is gazza still short of cash. I didn't know he had hamas contacts. Better be careful with what i say :)

Mr Charts, like you I believe all the big charities are more political than they make out.

Fred, please try to convince me why i should hand over my hard earned cash to help the palestinians when their ruling elite 'hamas' seems to have more than enough money to cloth, feed and house them.

Israel seems to have fallen for the same trick as they did with hezbollah. Hamas annoy Israel long enough so they retaliate and hamas can then buy peoples allegiances with all of this 'rebuilding' money they must have found down the back of the sofa.

rawdm999, its this bloody keyboard, it has a mind of its own;-)

And congratulations to the BBC and Sky for refusing the DEC appeal and resisting pressure. The BBC should get credit when it's due - and that's rare enough.
The billions that have been contributed by Saudi, the Gulf States, the EU, the UK, the US AND EVEN Israel have been wasted in the past. The majority has been spent on arms, rockets, salted away in Swiss bank accounts, mass corruption, 4x4s for Hamas and so on. A small minority has been spent on food, drugs etc. Virtually zero on infrastructure.
People's decent feelings of humanity are being manipulated and exploited by the scenes of damage and injury so that Hamas can continue accumulating funds with just a trickle getting through in actual relief. But never mind, what you will see on your TV screens will be that small amount getting through, whilst the rest is creamed off - just as always.

The sooner Hamas goes the better. Then there will be a chance for peace.
If they stay, all they have to do is renounce violence, stop the rockets and put that into effect and renounce their demands to kill all Jews and drive them out of Israel.
Then a peace settlement will gradually come, just as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
Otherwise bloodshed will continue.
Sad, but inevitable.

Fred has made a knob of himself on this thread (imo!)
If anyone was in 2 minds, as to giving to this cause he champions or not, i'm sure his blinkered nonsense has made their mind up, and like me...they will give nothing.

Does anyone expect the West to sit down with Al Qaeda and negotiate a "peace settlement"?
So why expect Israel to "negotiate" its own destruction with Hamas or Hizbollah?

The woodwork is emptying!

"
Mr Charts.

"I used to be a member of Amnesty International until I realised some years ago the sort of people who run it, their leanings and their politics.
We also used to have a neighbour who worked for Christian Aid and his attitude was the same."

Sir, Andrew Roberts is quite right. Oxfam and others are politically motivated and use natural humanitarian concern as a stick to beat Israel, profiting from their status as charities with their apparent neutrality.
If you hold such opinions of the above bodies, you can see why your views on the Middle East problems are irresolvable.

I would think they would be happy to lose your support.

Fortunately, other than for a minority of people of a similar ilk, the general opinion of the above bodies is very high, as they are dedicated to relieving pain and misery of millions of less fortunate people than us.

It seems American position related to Israel is changing and in the present economic
situation they will reduce the subsidies and economic aid to the State of Israel.

I will wait with interest to see how pans out.

'It seems American position related to Israel is changing and in the present economic situation they will reduce the subsidies and economic aid to the State of Israel.'

Ha Ha! I do believe Mr Obama has given plenty of top jobs to those of the Jewish faith. One of whom is a first generation immigrant. Can't remember his name. Do you really think they are going to watch the Israelis back home suffer. Jeez!

'Fortunately, other than for a minority of people of a similar ilk,' I think you might find the majority tend to remain silent. It is the minority pressure groups who shout loudest.

Have you heard, when Barack offers an olive branch to Iran, Mr Azabinabadlad demands an apology. Get a Grip. edit - the last thing these people want is peace.

Raw,

"It is the minority pressure groups who shout loudest."

"Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings."


laku noć

Interesting way to sign off Fred, are you sure your're Welsh? Good Night.

hope you all wont mind me joining in.clearly you are all interested and concerned,as am i.
anyway maybe some might find the following of worthy of consideration. maybe not.
jew or israeli or should that be israely? i dont know. that is no disrespect intended, i simply dont know.
anyway having read karen's book of the history of god, her bibliography shows or explains that es = born of.
she also confirms that the old god of the caananites being the people that moses led out of egypt was el. es/el might therefore be born of the god of the caananites, that perhaps was represented by the golden calf, perhaps not. that it is accepted that moses was brought up and aware of all the teachings of egypt seems to be believed and accepted by most scholars.
moses created a new nation. did he create a new god? es plus el ?
having been educated in the royal court of egypt did he also include these teachings? the god of egypt being ra and putting the god ra at the centre of all things. put it together and what do we have?
es- ra -el with ra at the centre,
a new religion or simply a new nation?
can the story confirm the reality?
anyone like to comment ?
regards
jkd

Check the genetic makeup of the Palestinians and those living in Israel calling themselves Israelis.

Check the English genes as well. They really are a wild bunch.

Leave the Welsh alone as they are not at war with anybody for a week or so.

But the genes of my wife's and my offspring would be very interesting.

F1
was that a reply to my post ,or someone elses?
ta
regards
jkd

ditto
duplicate to above due to slow button sorry
see my post 653
jkd

I suppose that Ban Ki-Moon is an idiot and duped by what he observed!

Read the whole article.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7857874.stm


UN launches $613m appeal for Gaza


The UN has launched an appeal for $613m to help people affected by Israel's military offensive in Gaza.
"These needs are massive and multi-faceted," the body's top official Ban Ki-Moon said at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
He added that funds would be used to "help overcome at least some measures of this hardship".
The announcement came amid fears of a collapse of unilateral ceasefires by Israel and the Hamas militant group.
Two rockets have been fired at Israel, while Israeli air strikes hit southern Gaza.
UN Secretary-General Mr Ban visited Gaza after the ceasefires; he said help was urgently needed and he had been deeply moved by what he saw.

Fred, ive still got my donation at the ready burning a hole in my purse,
did you manage to dig me out any proof the donations wont end up in terrorists hands?

Ruth,
Send your donation to something worthwhile where the money isn't siphoned off by Hamas murderers who hide behind innocent women and children - like the Alzheimer's Society or the Distressed Gentlefolks Aid Soc........... or my favourite one Help for Heroes which looks after our terribly wounded soldiers who are sneered at in Leatherhead swimming pool because some locals don't like to see amputees.....and which our stinking government won't give enough help to.
Charity begins at home....
There are immensely rich Arab states who can give to Gaza..........

Of course you could also give to Magen David Adom which supplies ambulances etc to Israel. They pick up the casualties and the dead from all the suicide bombings and from the rocket fire from Gaza.
Richard

Charts, I will forever associate you with "the Alzheimer's Society or the Distressed Gentlefolks Aid Soc....".

UN launches $613m appeal for Gaza
Mr Ban said aid was urgently needed in Gaza
The UN has launched an appeal for $613m to help people affected by Israel's military offensive in Gaza.
Charts this is what you are arguing against. Have a look!

Play the video.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/davos/7857874.stm



I would value his opinion a little more than many who have posted on this thread.

It appears I am not alone in my views.

A few facts.

Israeli-Palestinian Fatalities Since 2000 from the beginning of the second intifada until July 2007. Amongst the most notable trends are:
the continuing high rate of fatalities amongst civilians who account for more than half the total of all those killed
the declining number of Israelis killed
a continuing high death rate for Palestinian adults and children particularly in the Gaza Strip
the escalating and changing nature of Palestinians killed from internal violence

Of those killed in the conflict, 4,228 have been Palestinians, 1,024 Israelis, and 63 foreign citizens

The total number of Palestinians, both civilians and combatants killed by the Israeli security forces or Israeli individuals, remains relatively high. In 2007, for example, for every one Israeli death there were 25 Palestinian deaths compared to 2002 when the ratio was 1:2.5.

Most of those killed in the conflict have been civilians not involved in the fighting.

Amongst Israelis, 69% of those killed were civilians and 31% members of the IDF. The number of Israeli civilians killed, from attacks by Palestinian armed groups or individuals, has declined steadily, peaking in 2002 at an average of 22 deaths per month, and dropping markedly to an average of one civilian per month in 2007.

In contrast to Israeli figures, however, Palestinian civilian fatalities have remained high. Palestinian civilians, killed by Israeli security forces, peaked with an average of 35 deaths per month in 2002, and again in 2004. In 2007 they dropped slightly to an average of ten civilian deaths per month.

Of the overall number of children killed, 88% were Palestinian and 12 % were Israeli

Since 2005, there has been a marked increase in the number of Palestinian deaths resulting from internal violence. In 2005, only 4% of the total Palestinian deaths for that year were the result of internal conflict. In 2006, the figures rose to 17% and in 2007, deaths from internal violence accounted for 65% of the total Palestinian death toll.


The Bush/Blair thread all over again, eh Fred? With you most of the way - they'll be frothing at the mouth in the con club, not to mention the character assassination of the most crude sort.

And yet, and yet. Until you concede nastiness of extremists on Palestinian side, you will attract the vitriol -but then that makes for a lively thread, no?

Things can be so complex and so simple. Tit for tat, you started it, it's mine not yours.

Like Ireland, the weaker side will never be forced into submission; the uneasy mix of talk and violence will have to be the way to go until hopefully the violence part diminishes to zero; the US will hopefully make a better job of things than idiot Bush.