Fred1new
- 06 Jan 2009 19:21
Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?
If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?
Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?
What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?
Fred1new
- 30 Nov 2012 11:21
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It would seem to be a case of, we will negotiate with you as long as you don't take our criminal record into consideration, or ask for the goods we have purloined off you to be returned.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 11:28
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HS ..... you're better than a sleeping pill at times ..... the ICC thing is almost a side issue, though should the palestinians pursue that prematurely, it will inevitably stop the chance of starting ANY meaningful negotiations or discussions towards peace
as i implied earlier this morning, there will be a massive amount of discussion and negotiation being conducted behind closed doors - as there were for ireland ..... the "face" for domestic consumption may well appear very different
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 11:30
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It is not a question of the past. The Palestinians are more interested in Israel's behaviour from today onwards. There is one exception to that and it is the cause of the death of Yasser Arafat. The Palestinians have already indicated that Israeli involvement would mean recourse to the ICC.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 11:37
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yeah yeah yeah ..... you know all of course
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 16:11
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As Palestine gets its vote, Israel announced the building of 3,000 new settlement units in Jerusalem and The West Bank. This is specifically against commitments given to Obama. Israel certainly knows how to inflame the situation. Not much chance of a return to the peace process now.
Settlers have been complaining today to the Israeli government that their status has been effectively changed to that of occupying a foreign state. They want Israel to annex all settlements to be part of Israel.
Once again Israel puts itself on the wrong side of history and world opinion.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 16:30
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groan groan, and not at you for once HS, for i assume that story is correct ..... i'm not sure whether or not building in jerusalem is particularly provocative, but west bank is just plain "rude" ...... i am sure it will not be in the too distant future that someone will punch israel on the nose, though through the wallet would be much the most effective
Fred1new
- 30 Nov 2012 16:54
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Cynic.
The BBC confirms the building of buildings.
"through the wallet would be much the most effective"
The sooner the better, as they are showing complete disregard of world opinion and decency and increasing alienation of the Israelis.
I hope in the coming Israeli election that the Netty is rejected, but perhaps I am again to optimistic.
But. sanctions are probably on the table, after resolution of the fiscal cliff.
Hope Obama has crampons on.
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 18:04
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They are building in East Jerusalem, which is provocative as it is Palestinian territory. The specific area is known as E1.
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 18:06
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Netenyahu is at his most popular. He seems to think he can do what he wants. The only hope is that he seriously annoys Obama and the larger world community.
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 19:28
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With the new settlements and Israel's disregard for opinion must mean it is time for stronger methods. As a start Israel should be treated similarly to South Africa during the apartheid days. That would mean boycotts by most of the countries in the world and banning from all sporting and cultural events. No airlines to fly to Israel.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 20:39
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for my part, i would like to see the leaders of the uk jewish community standing up and voicing the opinion of their congregation, whether in favour of israel's actions (would assuredly hope not!) or in condemning them
this is no more than we expect(ed) of the muslim community in recent times and the catholic leaders in ireland
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 21:10
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It gets worse.
At some stage there is going to be a hell of a backlash.
Israel Threatens To “Reoccupy’ West Bank
Israeli member of Knesset, Vice Prime Minister and Minister for Regional Development and the development of the Negev and Galilee, Silvan Shalom, threatened that Israel would reoccupy the West Bank in response to the Palestinian bid at the United Nations General Assembly that won the Palestinians a nonmember observer state status.
During an interview with the Israeli Radio, Shalom, of the Likud Party of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, accused the Palestinian Authority (P.A.) in the occupied West Bank, of violating the Oslo Agreement, and said that heading to the UN effectively “voided the peace deal, an issue that allows Israel to conduct unilateral moves”.
The Palestine News Network (PNN) has reported that Shalom threatened that Israel would enforce its military control on the entire West Bank, and would link the Ma'ale Adumim (the biggest settlement bloc in the West Bank) with occupied East Jerusalem by confiscating large areas of Palestinian lands.
cynic
- 01 Dec 2012 12:13
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The British Foreign Secretary said he was "extremely concerned" at the plans to create 3,000 new homes, warning it would make the two-state solution "difficult to achieve".
The US government also criticised Israel for the move.
"This administration - like previous administrations - has been very clear with Israel that these activities set back the cause of a negotiated peace," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in Washington.
so apart from a few critical words, what will US gov't do about it?
f*ck all is better than a racing certainty!
a simple withdrawal of some aid would concentrate israeli minds no end
indeed, with BO in for another 4 years, he need not worry his head about the squawking jewish NY cabal, and some firm action would undoubtedly do USA's international credibility a great deal of good
Haystack
- 01 Dec 2012 12:53
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The serious problem about this particular settlement is that if it goes ahead then it cuts the West Bank in two and prevents a large number of Palestinians from reaching Jerusalem. This is a deliberate plan to stop Palestine from having East Jerusalem as its capital. It is the reason that the US obtained promises from Israel to avoid settling the E1 area.
Israel originally said that they would punish Palestine by withholding the payment of taxes that they collect on their behalf. The Arab community said last week that they would make up the shortfall. Israel was so hell bent on punishment that they say they will steal more land. They have also announced the speeding up of 1,000 planning applications.
How can you have peace talks about dividing up a cake while one party is eating the cake before the talks and expects to continue eating while the talks take place?
Once again the US will do nothing to stop this. William Hague has also condemned this move by Israel.
Perhaps the US and UK may now see the folly of not voting with Palestine yesterday. Once again Israel demonstrates its arrogance. It is about time that the world community took some action.
cynic
- 01 Dec 2012 13:04
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USA for all sorts of historical reasons, whether good or bad, was inevitably going to vote against.
UK's position of abstaining had its logic, whether or not you agree with it
in any case, it did not make any difference at all
however, i do heartily agree that the world community - USA would suffice - took some meaningful action that not only showed its opprobrium of this latest disgrace, but also attached some economic teeth to it
indeed, i am so incensed that i have even written to my local rabbi, asking at the same time why the leaders of uk jewish community have remained deafeningly silent, not only on this latest issue, but on the israeli gov't's long-term mistreatment of the general palestinian populace in gaza
Haystack
- 01 Dec 2012 13:47
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I could also write to my local rabbi, but being a lapsed catholic it wouln't have the same effect. In researching my family tree, I have found that I am part Jewish when my family at that time lived in the Brick Lane area I guess they came from eastern Europe somewhere. The Jewish woman in my family married a protestant who was a music printer in the next street. I bet that went down well with both sides of the family. That branch stayed protestant till my mother. She then married my father, who was a catholic. Then we became catholic. On a strictly orthodox view I am Jewish in theory as there is an unbroken line through my mother from the Jewish woman in around about 1860 and of course earlier. Is it too late to be clipped?
TANKER
- 01 Dec 2012 13:47
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yasser died from CJD
Haystack
- 01 Dec 2012 19:14
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http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=294203
PA hints it may turn to ICC over new W. Bank, J'lem units
Senior PLO official Ashrawi says approval of 3,000 housing units a flagrant violation of 4th Geneva Convention: "The world must hold Israel accountable for its aggression against the lands of the occupied State of Palestine."
The Palestinian Authority hinted Saturday that it was considering complaining to the International Criminal Court against Israel for approving the construction of 3000 housing units in east Jerusalem and the West Bank.
PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi said that the Israeli decision was a "war crime" and an "act of aggression against the State of Palestine."
Haystack
- 01 Dec 2012 19:33
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I looked up the 4th Geneva Convention the other day. It is quite long, but the important bit is article 49 and is as follows:-
"Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war states: "The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own population into the territories it occupies."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1682640.stm
cynic
- 01 Dec 2012 20:36
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HS - there is no way you are jewish .... go back to school .... on the other hand, i dare say you could get a mohel to clip you without anaesthetic, or even to cut your balls off :-)