Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

tell us FRED, how many weeks, months or even years are you prepared to wait until there is even a 10:2 majority (you'll never have unanimity) in the UN as to what action and post-action solution should be employed?

in the meantime, is your "solution" to sit and do nothing at all?

btw, quite how UN would ever be able to enforce this non-existent and almost-unanimous verdict, is hard to imagine

=============

as with the ira when secret talks were being conducted, and indeed, in the days of henry kissinger, between china and usa, it is very likely that similar are already in progress with and between a number of parties

i am certainly very disappointed that not one of the gulf states - or even the likes of iran i think - has openly come out not only in verbal but also hardware support to destroy IS, which i cannot see as other than a very dangerous, evil and murderous entity

it is therefore quite tempting (and wrong) to take the view that if the gulf states are unwilling to do anything to help and protect themselves, then they should be left to reap the consequences
unfortunately, the global effects of this would be catastrophic

Hays, Hays,

What are the Party Central Office handouts on this?

The tories are split over NHS and Welfare, Europe and Syria.

Their membership is crumbling.

More of the donors are going living abroad like Donna Kebabs.

The Cons are imploding!


It is good to have a wtb Bomber Cameron in charge.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/28/david-cameron-backs-grant-shapps-conservatives-scandal-activist


Grant Shapps resigns over bullying scandal
Former party chairman stands down after revelations he knew about bullying allegations against aide almost a year ago
Grant Shapps
Grant Shapps, the former Conservative party co-chairman. Photograph: Carl Court/Getty Images
Daniel Boffey and Henry Zeffman
Saturday 28 November 2015 12.00 GMT Last modified on Saturday 28 November 2015

Grant Shapps, the former chairman of the Conservative party, has resigned as a government minister, Downing Street sources have indicated after David Cameron refused to offer his full support following Guardian revelations that he was warned about alleged bullying in the party.

The father of 21-year-old Elliot Johnson, who claimed he was bullied by the Tory party youth organiser Mark Clarke before being found dead, demanded that Shapps and Andrew Feldman resign for failing to act over the scandal. The pair were party co-chairmen at the time of the alleged bullying.

Iran is supplying funds and arms to defeat ISIL. Iran is Shia Islam as is the ruling elite of Assad's government. ISIL are Sunni, which is part of the problem. Hezbollah are Shia as well and consequently allied to Assad and Iran. The overwhelming majority of Syria is Sunni (around 75%), which is partly why the rebels are trying to depose Assad. The bulk of Islam across the world is Sunni amounting to more than 90%, which is why ISIL finds it so easy to recruit people.

Just to complicate it further, Saudi are Sunni and indirectly support and fund ISIL. This why they are opposed to Iran.

Manuel,

I suggest you reread my post and get somebody help you comprehend their contents.

I know it is difficult for you, but thank god I am not your mentor.

But, I would prefer the UK to sit on the side and negotiate and form a decent policy which would include ALL PARTIES, not just that which is advantageous to the UK and Cameron's political history.

Compared with negotiating for the peace after WW2 it should be easier.

Stopping of the Korean, Vietnam wars etc. were said to be impossible.

The "killing" was stopped and the world goes on!


0-0-0-

I am not against using force to stop the M.E problem, but it has to be joint force with foot soldiers from all participants under a joint control from its initiation.

Later, the control can pass to the government which is formed in the aftermath.

But the cost of doing so is going to be high.

and my question is and remains
FOR HOW LONG WOULD YOU BE PREPARED TO SIT ON YOUR HANDS

in any case and like it or not, this will not be an "open" free vote even among MPs, so with the published agenda of the corbynistas and snp, you will (of course) never ever get agreement from all parties ......

it follows that the best that can be hoped for is a rejection of cameron's policy (on balance i think he's as right as circumstances allow), or a reasonable majority in favour

Look at my add on to post 65485.

It should be a free vote of all members of HP and probably will be for the labour party if Corbyn has sense.

But I am prepared for the present tory party to have the entire responsibility the proposed actions.

Of course, Cameron may duck and duck the responsibility of his own policy once again.

The longer he leaves the vote the more the public will reject his policy. This seems to be happening at the moment, as the limits and problems the present actions are revealed.

Interesting to see polls next week.

Grant Shapps quits amid Tory bullying claims!


Grant Shapps has quit as international development minister amid allegations of "bullying" in the Conservative Party, the BBC understands.

The only surprise is that Shapps didn't go years ago.. care to comment now H/S on the Tory Bullying?.. apart from the usual no one cares nonsense.

It should be a free vote of all members of HP and probably will be for the labour party if Corbyn has sense.
thoroughly agree with the sentiment of that, though the reality will assuredly be that MPs from both sides will be leant on heavily by the grandees and whips - no idea about snp

==============

I am not against using force to stop the M.E problem, but it has to be joint force with foot soldiers from all participants under a joint control from its initiation.
nice idea though it won't happen .... my guess is that the russkies will be persuaded to supply the grunt pretty much on their own - but there'll be a hefty price of course

==============

and a straight question to finish with ....

do you think MPs should vote per their individual conscience or should they vote according to the (questionable) wishes of their constituents or constituency parties?

imo, though assuredly MPs will not be in command of even half the facts allowed to the cabinet, shadow cabinet and their respected (hohoho!) leaders, they are still more intelligent than the average joe and should vote per their individual conscience

I think it will end up being a free vote for Labour. Corbyn looks unlikely to risk being defied by up to 100 MPs together with resignations from his Cabinet.

from the tory side, i hear the potential rebels have been "persuaded" to stand in line
i find it impossible to believe that the labour dissidents will not also be leant on, though with what effect remains to be seen

what's the score with snp?
i find it hard to believe that all 41 of its MPs are unanimous in their opinions

Corbyn has emailed all the party faithful that voted him in. They are then supposed to lean on their MP with the agenda of reselection. MPs will have returned to their constituencies this weekend giving an opportunity for the Corbynistas to bully their MPs.

Diane Abbott once claimed that murderous Chinese dictator Chairman Mao did ‘more good than wrong’, it emerged yesterday.

Communist leader Mao killed tens of millions of his citizens during his rule from 1949 to 1976.

But he won praise from Labour’s international development spokesman for leaving his country on the ‘verge of great economic success’.

Miss Abbott’s comments emerged after Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell’s ill-judged stunt during Wednesday’s Autumn Statement, when he quoted from the Little Red Book of Mao’s sayings. It was condemned by Diane Wei Liang, who spent three years in a labour camp under Mao as a child.

Labour embarrassment over the stunt was compounded yesterday after footage emerged of Miss Abbott during an appearance on the BBC’s This Week show in 2008 when she revealed she had been debating Mao’s legacy with her son.

Former Tory minister Michael Portillo had queried why ‘people still wear Mao T-shirts, people still carry Mao Little Red Books’. Hackney MP Miss Abbott replied: ‘I suppose that some people would judge that on balance Mao did more good than wrong. We can’t say that about the Nazis.’

She added: ‘He led his country from feudalism, he helped to defeat the Japanese, and he left his country on the verge of the great economic success they are having now.’

Yesterday Lib Dem leader Tim Farron said Miss Abbott’s remarks were ‘ludicrous’.

Grant Shapps quits amid Tory bullying claims!


Grant Shapps has quit as international development minister amid allegations of "bullying" in the Conservative Party, the BBC understands.

The only surprise is that Shapps didn't go years ago.. care to comment now H/S on the Tory Bullying?.. apart from the usual no one cares nonsense.

Not my problem.

You can do better then that.

Manuel,

I think they an MP should vote according to conscience.

However, there can be a question of whether an MP represents the views of those who vote for him/her, or is representative for his/her constituents.

I think he/she should advise his/her constituents, at the time of the election, that he/she will vote according to his/her conscience. If all did so, his vote, in general, may in general, be representative of the public in general.


-=-=-=-=-=

Haze,

You may find that many of the "utterances" suppose to be made by Corbyn were made in 70s and 80s and you are broadcasting them without relevant context.

Probably, many of the remarks made were before or during the period Cameron and Osborne were thought, by some, to have been to be sniffing various ingredients and exposing themselves to heroin, cocaine, as has been reported in various newspapers.

It may account for the befuddled brains at times.

Also, I suggest you look at some of the policies that Cameron advocated on drug centres, before he was elected and during his period of being greener than he now is.

=-=-=-=-=

Mind, seems Shapps has been dumped by Wavy Dave.

He was forgetful about expense claims.

He should have been reported to IDS.

It takes a real chimp to vote for the present con party.

Something else.

What is getting up my nose at the moment is the false reason that "We should support the actions of "friends" ie. referring to France etc.

I like France and Hollande and other European and non-European countries in general, but if I saw friend attempting unjustified murder I would think it more appropriate to try to stop him, not help him in his action.

I think much of Cameron's recent speech was false emotional claptrap aimed at the "up and at em" brigade to gain support for a misjudged policy.