Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

It takes a real chimp to vote for the present con party.

Something else.

What is getting up my nose at the moment is the false reason that "We should support the actions of "friends" ie. referring to France etc.

I like France and Hollande and other European and non-European countries in general, but if I saw friend attempting unjustified murder I would think it more appropriate to try to stop him, not help him in his action.

I think much of Cameron's recent speech was false emotional claptrap aimed at the "up and at em" brigade to gain support for a misjudged policy.

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacificsts for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."


-- Hermann Goring

MEANWHILE BACK IN THE REAL WORLD :-


Nigel Farage urges Tory voters to 'lend' him their vote to defeat Labour at Oldham by-election
The Ukip leader says the contest is now so close that he would be throwing all the party’s available campaign resources at winning.

Telegraph

Nigel Farage: 'Old Labour' voters 'appalled' by Jeremy Corbyn's unpatriotic views
The Ukip Leader has said his Party will 'bite very, very hard' on the 'old Labour' voters who would be 'appalled' by Jeremy Corbyn's unpatriotic views

Ukip will "bite very, very hard" on the "old Labour" voters who would be "appalled" by Jeremy Corbyn's unpatriotic views, Nigel Farage has said.
The Ukip leader said many Labour voters would be uncomfortable about Mr Corbyn allegedly "cosying up to the IRA", believing the UK should give up the nuclear deterrent and wanting to give Falklands back to Argentina.
Speaking at the official announcement of the Party's candidate in the Oldham by-election, Mr Farage described the Labour leader as a "trendy hard-left Labour man" and said this by-election would be a test of whether Mr Corbyn can connect with voters outside north London.

Mr Farage said: "Is Jeremy Corbyn patriotic? Does he believe in this country? Does he believe in the people of this country?
"So I feel that we really, really can bite very, very hard into that old Labour vote who frankly bear little in common with the north London, trendy hard-left Labour man.
"This very much amongst Labour voters is going to be a test of, does Corbyn connect outside of north London and a very narrow, pretty extreme left-wing group of people.
"And all the indications that we've got is that very large numbers of Labour people are frankly pretty appalled by many of the stances that Mr Corbyn takes."


Labour MPs have only one option – a mutiny
Jeremy Corbyn has lost all credibility as Labour leader. The Parliamentary party should stage a coup by choosing its own own.

By John McTernan7:00AM GMT 28 Nov 2015
What do you call a man who promises to do one thing and then does the opposite? A liar? A hypocrite? Or just plain Jeremy Corbyn?


On Thursday night Corbyn wrote to all Labour MPs explaining that he could not support David Cameron’s proposal for air strikes in Syria. This surprised the shadow cabinet, who had just had a meeting with the leader in which he had – they thought – signed up to collective decision-making on the Syria vote. Myself, I wouldn’t have believed a word he said – but then I would never have served in the current shadow cabinet at all.
Still, those lies, the letter to the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP), and the intention of Corbyn to attend this weekend’s Stop The War demonstration show that the “we’ve got to talk about Jeremy” phase is well and truly over.
It is now time for the PLP to act. Mutiny will take some organisation, but it no longer requires bravery – just self-respect.


It is worth recalling the charge sheet. Disrespectful behaviour at the Cenotaph. Attacking the head of the Armed Forces. Slapping down the shadow defence secretary Maria Eagle by appointing Ken Livingstone over her head. Livingstone himself making slurs about the mental health of an MP and then refusing to apologise.


On top of that has come the accelerating madness of this week: John McDonnell citing the mass murderer Mao as a “joke”; Livingstone claiming that the 7/7 bombers “gave up their lives” rather than being terrorist murderers; and then, finally, Corbyn doing the dirty on his own shadow cabinet.


All of this underpinned by performances at the dispatch box by Corbyn of which the best you can say is that, in the words of George Galloway, “at least his trousers haven’t fallen down”.
The question until recently has been who should the party rally round. For all the undoubted talents of Liz Kendall and Yvette Cooper, they are still licking their wounds from the leadership election. Of the grandees, Harriet Harman has just stepped down from the leadership and Alan Johnson has said so many times that he doesn’t want the job that he is probably telling the truth.
Who then? Cometh the hour, cometh the man. The frontbencher who has shown the most dignity, the most grace under pressure since the election of Jeremy Corbyn is Hilary Benn. His honest attempts to maintain unity, his eloquent attempts to explain what Corbyn means and his transparent decency make him the obvious choice.
Will the PLP act? Well, they have to. If Syria is not the trigger, then the disastrous result predicted in Oldham West should be. Something has to give and it has to be Corbyn.

The trouble is that if Labour wins Oldham it will put pressure on Corbyn to leave. I want Corbyn to stay until the election. It is no coincidence that the Conservatives are giving Corbyn an easy ride. They desperately want him to remain as leader.

Max,

Didn’t know that quotation, but it rings true of present the present day tory political elite.

=-==-=-

It similar to the Cameron and Osborne, Crosby and his sycophants smearing many dependent of Welfare for the problems made in the city and financial services for their own economic mismanagement. Diversionary techniques, trying direct public attention from the real problems, and their own failures.

Also, attempting to misdirect attention, by smearing, the characters of political opponents who have differing opinions to themselves.

But the attempts to smear Corbyn and McDonnell may be wearing a little thin with the general public.

Haze.

I hope Corbyn remains leader, at least he looks honest in comparison with his opposite number.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-labour-must-get-rid-of-this-talentless-cheerleader-for-outmoded-1970s-thinking-now-a6752926.html

Jeremy Corbyn: Labour must get rid of this talentless cheerleader for outmoded 1970s thinking – now

He should be replaced before he does any more damage to the party

http://www.opednews.com/articles/With-Us-or-with-the-Terro-by-James-Jatras-Isis_Oil_Putin_Syria-151128-943.html

Haze.

Check on your supporters when you refer to them.

Or, perhaps, your cheque!

The trouble is Fred you can do or say what you like in opposition , it's when you actually do have to make decisions in office .

voting per conscience
fred- if you asked the average joe whether he would back the reinstatement of capital punishment, i think there is little doubt that a large majority would vote aye

however, as has been shown several times in parliament, MPs vote strongly against

surely there is a parallel here with the vote on the extension of bombing to syria, on whether or not MPs should be coerced by their constituents on how to vote

Vic,

I agree.

The responsibility of "office" or "command" is not simple and I wouldn't want it and wouldn't consider myself capable of having such, but it is reasonable to be thinking and critical of decisions made, or being made.

Looking back I have made the wrong decisions too frequently and hopefully learnt from them.

today's ST - main section - #1/2
a good article by robert harris on the current state and future of the labour party

Story of my life = Wrong decisions .

Vic.

I think this cartoon sums up the present situation and reminds me of my father reminding me of the old adage "when in doubt, sit back and observe and think".

I suspect there are plenty of plans, but none of them addressing the real problem.

Manuel,

P 65511

From memory voting on Capital Punishment for the last 50-60 years has always been on a "vote of conscience".

I think that is acceptable.

Although, there are quite a few individuals who I would have like seen dispatched of, I think the abolishment was correct.

PS.

I met the man who arrested Timothy Evans. Even 10years after the execution
of Evans the policeman remained "certain" of Evans' guilt.

UMMMH

-=-=-=-=

fred - as i wrote yesterday, i am sure (and i hope that i am right) there is already much high-level discussion going on behind the scenes and in secret - as indeed it must be

your father may have been right in everyday situations, though procrastination is the thief of time, but we now have an extraordinary situation where a strong lead and decisions are necessary .....

for myself, i think (with some reluctance) that an extension of the bombing is correct, but i certainly accept that there is a counter-argument - it just happens that i do not agree with it though some of my children might (lively dinner-table debate last night)