Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Free vote then .

The trouble is Fred these Nations themselves have NO regard for their own people , have they .

Ps.

I wonder how many MPs hold shares in Arms Companies.

There seems there is an opportunity for Haze and fellow opportunists there.

V - never ever expect a balanced view from fred
indeed, he was even forced to admit the other day that he will only post as suits his pretty (perhaps ugly) hard-left agenda

Still chatting crap with Fred then ?

fred it appears you have no respect for your family it appears your family are a rough
load of tramps are you tinkers by any chance you know the dirty ones

Yes cynic he is a bit Jekyl and Hyde . I think he's a bugger for the bottle .

oh no ..... he's not two-faced but it may be as well if he doesn't look in the mirror :-)

Victim,

The trouble is Fred these Nations themselves have NO regard for their own people , have they .

ISIS is a small minority of Syrians inf Raqqa and Syria as a whole, and you are damning a whole population for their action.


It would be like bombing London or Birmingham because there were IRA atrocities carried out by them.

Or flattening Rochdale, because some terrorist may have hidden or be hiding there.

Or blowing up the City of London because some corrupt bankers, traders and Money lenders helped cause a financial crash leading to many people dying of starvation as a consequence.

(You can work the last one out yourself.)

I never expected a perfect world, but at least if one considers themselves moderately civilise, one can try to reduce the carnage and not react out of revenge and insulted pride.


Or, perhaps, Cynic can see how to make a buck or two out the market and put it down to expertise and being pragmatic.

--=-==

If I thought the "proposed" actions were beneficial in the long term I would agree to "bombing", but for the sake of saying "we were there, or we took part" I think if is bloody stupid.

Again, I hope I am wrong in my conclusions.

Fred , has that wife of yours ever kicked you in the Nads .

She doesn't have to.

She is a black belt!

The Great Charity Scandal

Nearly 200,000 charities in the UK raising almost £80,000,000,000
Most charities are run for the benefit of their grossly overpaid executives, not the poor individuals they claim to support.

In England and Wales there are 1,939 active charities focused on children; 581 charities trying to find a cure for cancer; 354 charities for birds; 255 charities for animals, 81 charities for people with alcohol problems and 69 charities fighting leukaemia.

You could donate to the £16.3 million- a-year Breakthrough Breast Cancer, the £13.4 million Breast Cancer Care or the £10.6 million Breast Cancer Campaign… and the list goes on. This duplication is hugely expensive.
2517

See Hunt has started to do a U-turn and is running away from the doctors.

Oh, Dear.

-==---==-==

No surprise at all there Fred, typical tory tactics play both ends against the middle and see if the particular group under attack stands up and say's no.. then back down.

Jeremy Corbyn tells photographers: 'You're actually very rude'


Jeremy Corbyn has told photographs outside his home that they are "very rude" as they blocked him from getting into his car.

The Labour leader left his home in Islington a short while ago only to face a group of photographers.


He told them: "Mind the way so I can get in the car please."

But when they refused to move aside, he said: "You're actually very rude the way you behave."

As Mr Corbyn is driven away, one photographer tells another: "Apparently we were quite rude."


LOL!!! Is that the same message he has sent to ISIS? Way to go JEZZA!

"Dear ISIS, I am coming to the conclusion that you are quite rude. I will have to put your name in my naughty book".

CC and H/S seem to have developed rather worrying interest in a middle age man with a beard.. do your wives know about this fetish -):

Nothing would surprise me by those two.

They could be part of the investigation into their party management.

Have to ask Lawson is is worthwhile to do it.

News, sport and opinion from the Guardian's UK edition ...



www.theguardian.com/uk






Latest news, sport, business, comment, analysis and reviews from the Guardian, the world's leading liberal voice. Sponsored by Red Fred and Stanley :0)



Labour is losing touch with public opinion, research suggests





YouGov data shows how Jeremy Corbyn’s unpopularity as leader and the changing profile of Labour voters could make the party unelectable.

Jeremy Corbyn is seen as an unpopular leader across almost all demographic groups and leads a party whose voters are increasingly out of step with majority opinion in the country.

Since the election, Labour has attracted voters from two main sources: the Liberal Democrats and the Greens, many of whom hold views on immigration, defence, welfare and patriotism that are at odds with public opinion.





Live/ PLP meets after Corbyn agrees free vote on Syria airstrikes - Politics live

Jeremy Corbyn decides to give his MPs free vote on airtrikes in Syria, outlining policy at meetings of shadow cabinet and parliamentary Labour party




Read more

At the same time, Labour has retained only two-thirds of its own voters, according to a YouGov poll I am releasing on Monday.

The voters who have deserted the party since May hold views reflecting public opinion. The result is that the Labour vote is now composed of staunch loyalists and recent converts; a base that holds positions on immigration, defence, welfare and patriotism which render the party unrepresentative and unelectable.

The flowchart below shows how voters have moved between the political parties in England since May. According to my poll, Labour has retained just 68% of its vote over that period. As the chart shows, these lost Labour voters have found homes with the Conservatives, Greens, Lib Dems and Ukip, or simply don’t know how they will vote. They have been replaced by former Lib Dems or Greens, many of whom strongly approve of Corbyn (43%) but not of the Labour party (13%).



However, the approval they show is not shared in the country as a whole. Respondents from all demographic groups are united in their strong disapproval of Corbyn as Labour leader. Regardless of gender, age group, social class, region, education age, ethnicity or residential tenure, he is hugely unpopular in the country.

Only 13% of those attracted to Labour since May strongly approve of the party, but 43% of the same voters strongly approve of Corbyn, meaning they may return from whence they came at some point should he disappoint them or be pushed aside.

Voters who have left Labour since May disapprove of Corbyn in equal measure to majority opinion in the country.





Labour should keep its powder dry on Trident – the debate has barely begun

Chris Parry






Read more

Of those that approve of Corbyn, their views on issues are also at odds with majority public opinion. More than half (51%) of all respondents agree with the renewal of Trident, with only 24% disagreeing. There is a consensus in the country in favour of renewing Britain’s nuclear deterrent system regardless of gender, age group, social class and region.

Only supporters of Corbyn, current Labour voters and recent converts want to see Trident scrapped.



Respondents were also asked whether immigration had been good for Britain’s economy or cultural life. Roughly equal proportions of all respondents agree or disagree on this matter.




Younger, better-off voters and those in London are more likely to see the benefits of immigration. Older, less well-off voters and those outside the capital see immigration as a net negative influence on the economy or cultural life. Corbyn supporters appear to only see the benefits. Voters who have moved to Labour since the election feel the same way. Those who have left the party do not – and neither does broader public opinion.

More than three-quarters (76%) of all respondents believe there should be an upper limit on the amount of welfare a household can claim. Here Corbyn’s avowed opposition to a benefits cap puts him at odds not only with broader public opinion but also with Labour supporters and recent converts to the party. Voters who have left the party resemble broader public opinion on this issue; they want a limit on the amount of welfare a household can receive.

More than two-thirds (67%) of all respondents believe patriotism is important and that our politicians should show it whenever they can. Regardless of gender, age, social class or region, there is public consensus on this. But fewer than half (45%) of voters attracted to Labour since May and only 42% of Corbyn supporters feel this way. Fewer than a third (31%) of Green voters from May, many of whom have been attracted to Corbyn’s Labour, think patriotism is important in politicians. Voters who left the party disagree. So does broader public opinion – they want their leaders to be patriotic and to show they are.


In summary, the poll shows the depth and breadth of opposition to Corbyn as Labour leader and the policies and issues he represents. The party is winning tenuous support from former Lib Dems and Greens because of Corbyn, while simultaneously losing support from voters who best reflect public opinion. In so doing it is choosing to represent a dwindling section of the electorate that not only does not reflect the breadth of public opinion but is blissfully unconcerned by it.





Labour has good reason to feel nervous about its poll test in Oldham

Robert Ford






Read more

Should Corbyn fall on his sword it is more than likely those voters who have recently attached themselves to the party will drift away again, leaving Labour with the 68% it has retained from May. By that point it will have so alienated itself from public opinion as to be considered unelectable by those voters who would quite like a bit of economic security and competence. The third of voters it has lost may well choose to permanently close the door on any return. All of which slowly and inexorably sends a great political institution towards its unfortunate but inevitable death.

Methodology: total sample size was 7,412 British adults. Fieldwork was undertaken by YouGov between 18-23 November. The survey was carried out online. The figures have been weighted and are representative of all British adults (aged 18+). YouGov provided Ian Warren with the raw data, and all analysis has been undertaken by Warren using this data. Data provided in this release refers to English adults only. Tables can be downloaded here.

Ian Warren is the director of Election Data, a consultancy specialising in election analysis, cartography and demographic segmentation. He has worked for all of the main parties in one form or another and worked in Labour HQ during the 2015 general election campaign.

BBC News

Tuesday's 24 hour strike by junior doctors in England is called off following last-minute talks with ministers. Dry your eyes Fred and Stanley.