Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Are you referring to me in your last sentence?

But the first part is due to the demise of "heavy" and "allied" industries under the administration of your old icon Maggie.

it started decades b4 that when non-selective schools were touted as the way for the future - hahaha!

Here's what was in the first section of the Article 50 letter from the Prime Minister, Theresa May, to President Donald Tusk:

Dear President Tusk

On 23 June last year, the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. As I have said before, that decision was no rejection of the values we share as fellow Europeans. Nor was it an attempt to do harm to the European Union or any of the remaining member states. On the contrary, the United Kingdom wants the European Union to succeed and prosper. Instead, the referendum was a vote to restore, as we see it, our national self-determination. We are leaving the European Union, but we are not leaving Europe - and we want to remain committed partners and allies to our friends across the continent.

Earlier this month, the United Kingdom Parliament confirmed the result of the referendum by voting with clear and convincing majorities in both of its Houses for the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill. The Bill was passed by Parliament on 13 March and it received Royal Assent from Her Majesty The Queen and became an Act of Parliament on 16 March.

Today, therefore, I am writing to give effect to the democratic decision of the people of the United Kingdom. I hereby notify the European Council in accordance with Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union of the United Kingdom's intention to withdraw from the European Union. In addition, in accordance with the same Article 50(2) as applied by Article 106a of the Treaty Establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, I hereby notify the European Council of the United Kingdom's intention to withdraw from the European Atomic Energy Community. References in this letter to the European Union should therefore be taken to include a reference to the European Atomic Energy Community.

She goes on further with: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/29_03_17_article50.pdf

Yours sincerely

Theresa May

Manuel,

In one way you right and my clock must have stopped.

However one of the largest "apprentice" trainers was Coal Mining (NCB).

They provided "training" as miners, mechanics, electrician or supervisor and technical night schools and training and supported some obtaining University degrees.

Some going onto HCN, BSc and MSc etc. and other Colliery manager qualification.

Some escaping from coal mining into other areas of industry etc. with their qualifications.

-==-=

(I think similar applied to other heavy industries.)

Article 50....hmmm...reminds me of something my Mum used to call me...I used to reply that I wasn't quite the finished ..........

Fred agree's with Donald Trump , open up the closed coal mines. There is no such thing as global warming.

6600 - quite possibly fred, and certainly an eton-schooled chap i used to know well worked his way through the NCB system to management level of some kind

however, leaving politics aside, the coal industry was in terminal decline, so its ultimate demise was inevitable

more generally and as an example, the country lacks all sorts of building skills from brickies through sparks
even when courses are taken and completed, few companies will take them on, and the one-man bands certainly won't, fearing the ultimate competition
as a result, no field work = no completed qualification = inability to trade properly

for sure graduates with applicable courses can often find graduate placement (my younger son did), but it's the yawning hole for the non-academic that is not being recognised let alone filled in any way

i don't know the system in NL exactly, but i get the impression that it is not the case over there

The problem with the underground coal mines in this country was simple economics. The open cast coal producers of South Africa and Australia could mine and transport the stuff much more cheaply. While the coal faces in the UK were mechanised, the driving of intake and return airways and roof support was manual, as was the maintenance of antiquated conveyor and shaft hoisting equipment. As a student, I worked at an underground coal mine near Kippax that still had pit ponies to pull mine carts. And no, it wasn't in the times of Dickens. Add to that the decline in domestic consumption as central or gas fired heating became the norm and the bleak future for underground coal in this country was there to see. Subsidies was a losers game. Only dedicated mine to power station setups survived.

Well, IMHO, it looks as though we are not going to get a deal because the EU top dogs are NOT going to play ball.

Angela Merkel has rejected one of Theresa May’s key Brexit demands, insisting negotiations on Britain’s exit from the European Union cannot run in parallel with talks on the future UK-EU relationship.

“The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship,” the German chancellor said in Berlin. “Only when this question is dealt with can we – hopefully soon after – begin talking about our future relationship.”

Next thing was Theresa May threatening to withdraw cooperation with the EU on security as France and Germany refused to begin trade talks before Britain agrees to pay a Brexit “divorce bill”.

The Prime Minister had started the day by talking of a “deep and special partnership” with post-Brexit Europe, but within hours, senior EU, German and French figures refused to meet one of the Government’s key demands.

Manuel,

It was recognised post WW2, 40s/50s/60s that the coal industry in the UK was in financial trouble and decline for many reasons, mainly due to geological profile compared with other parts of the world.

(There were profitable or economically viable pits during that period.)

Part of the reasoning for the "Nationalisation" of the industry and its "subsidising" was for the social consequences of not doing so with the closure of pits and massive unemployment and possible "social" unrest.

It was not the policy of closing the "pits", but the speed of "implementation" and the same lack of preparation for the "social" consequences of doing so, which I disagreed with.

If it had been more gradual with "retraining" and "development" of "replacement" industry or employment, as had started in some areas of the UK in the 30s, it would have been more acceptable.

(I recognise the problems of unions and often "hamfisted" management.)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The same sort of ineptitude the present government policies and Brexit.

Exec,

Perhaps a little more humility by the "up and at em" brigade of "Brexiters" prior to the start of negotiation would have have been more appropriate.

So we've had not 24hrs yet and we may as well give up then .

Something new to you Freda , the word VOTE eh .

T. May wanted to secure the rights of British Nationals in Europe and Europeans in Britain many weeks ago but Merkel flatly refused, creating unnecessary uncertainty for those affected.

Fred as posted a cartoon backing BREXIT., .... lol

You get the feeling that there's no need for EU negotiators , we may as well just go straight to Merkel and sort it out , could be done in a week probably . We will see what's what if she wins here election how good or bad it will be .

aldwickkk

Fred as posted a cartoon backing BREXIT., .... lol

No he hasn't. He's posted up a cartoon where a gentleman who previously voted 'Leave' (ie. Brexit) is now asking if he can change his mind, because he is reading how chaotic ('Brexit CHAOS') the process is undoubtedly going to be.

6607 - fred - you are too obsessed and micro-focussed ..... it was the wider picture of the lack of apprenticeships and vocational courses for the less academic that might make for more interesting discussion