Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Unconfirmed reports were indicating that Michael Gove would be on the LEAVE side. If that were to happen and the vote was to leave then what chance him being the next PM.
2517

Cornyn and his chancellor both voted out in 1975 and now are set to vote in.

I voted in and now may vote out.

Lots of people voted in, but not for a common €uropean government, which what is on offer/happening.

Annual UK/EU trade deficit soars to £56 billion

In response to a written question from the independent Labour Peer, Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Hansard 02.12.14), the Government has confirmed that the UK’s annual trade deficit with the EU has soared from £28.5 billion in 2010 to a colossal £56.5 billion in 2013.

Responding for the Government, the Minister of State at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills & Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Lord Livingston of Parkhead said: The UK’s trade deficit with the European Union was £28.5bn in 2010, £21.7bn in 2011, £39.5bn in 2012 and £56.2bn in 2013.

Commenting on the Government’s response, Lord Stoddart said: “This massive trade imbalance graphically demonstrates that more than 40 years of EU membership has done nothing for our economy and for jobs.

It also demonstrates that the situation in recent years has dramatically deteriorated with the deficit very nearly doubling in just four years. It is quite clear that EU membership is a millstone around our country’s economic neck.”



http://www.betteroffout.net/annual-ukeu-trade-deficit-soars-to-56-billion/

Cornyn and his chancellor both voted out in 1975 and now are set to vote in.

I voted in and now may vote out.

fred continually berates and belittles as "little englanders" any who want "out", but runs true to form when equally decrying the very strenuous efforts that have been made to alter the status quo

almost a racing certainty that he won't actually cast a vote anyway

====================

for myself, as below

REFERENDUM
it remains a very difficult call
there are even greater unknowns by voting "out"

on the other hand, though i think DC played as good as hand as he possibly good given what was actually achievable, i am far from convinced that restricting benefits for eu migrants will do much to restrict the inflow ...... blocking them entirely was always a complete non-starter for obvious reasons

i certainly don't like that we have not regained any control over what eu laws we adopt or reject ..... and it is irrelevant who gave away that cornerstone in the first place

leaving the eu will certainly not be waving an economic magic wand, especially when it comes to trading with eu, as norway has discovered

all very finely balanced in my mind, and as you can see, i waver in either direction in just the slightest breeze

Dave's blown it....



EU deal: Who is left to hail David Cameron’s puny gains as a Roman triumph?

The negotiations could never be serious – and no one on either side will feel pleased by the result



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12165843/Who-is-left-to-hail-David-Camerons-puny-gains-as-a-Roman-triumph.html

Instead of newspaper rhetoric, I would like to see televised debates on the subject with sensible analyses of the pros and cons of staying in. Like most I suspect, I am offended by the EU riding roughshod over UK sovereighty, particularly a EU parliament that is clearly left wing in the majority, and as is the practice of such, very good at spending other peoples money. The various courts in Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg are examples of utter waste. I am also irritated by the inability of the UK to deport foreign criminals.
I am less worried about EU job seekers that sustain our hospitals, care homes and other services, generally on poor wages and with exorbitant rents to pay. In the main they are honest, hard working folk that are doing what Maggie used to exhort. Get on your bike and find work.
I like the idea of a debate with Jacob Rees Mogg defending the out position, against David Cameron or George Osborne.

Newspapers influence peoples opinions, and as such have to be taken seriously.

Todays headlines are almost all bad for Dave, pathetic performance etc etc.

Looks like half the cabinet are coming out against his deal, and hence he is dead in the water.


Where is Boris?

JRM is a great guy and exceedingly droll, but far too intelligent and assuredly would not come across well on tv to the average joe ..... and of course he's been to eton as well, so a big black mark to the socialist class-propogators!

it'll be interesting to see on which side of the fence young boris will align himself
whatever his faults (and virtues), he has tremendous charisma and following throughout the country ...... dick-head-fred is sure to jump on his soapbox about that!

i thoroughly agree with you about european courts and their rulings and also, if it is indeed they, the blocking of uk's ability to deport when warranted

the human rights act is now insane with its enormous bias towards the criminal (he has a cat in brixton to support!) and almost none for the victims

================

the following small c+p sums up plenty on the biz side .....

Former Labour cabinet minster Yvette Cooper tweeted; "Visited company & workforce in Whitwood today who said 80% of business there depends on Europe. More reason why Yorkshire is #StrongerIn."

if we leave, there is assuredly the great unknown as to the effects
it won't just be the more obvious, but the knock-on that is potentially seismic across the world, including how any "disruption" will (could) be seized upon and manipulated by assorted anti-west/democratic factions

You could be right about Rees Mogg, but I believe he comes across as a thoroughly decent man who is quick witted, calm and incisive. He will cut through the flannel and alarmism that tends to cloud any debate. Boris may be popular, but I would prefer Jacob as the more clear thinker and as a future PM.
Clearly there should be a series of debates, for example Nigel has earned his right as the instigator of the process that led the Tories to include the referendum in its manifesto.
I am still inclined to vote out. I don't believe those hard working EU nationals already here will be unduly affected while it would be nice to poke the eyes of the elite in Brussels, that have more to fear than we have. For a start they will have a lot less of other peoples money to throw away.

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/02/20/brexit-in-urging-us-to-stay-david-cameron-spells-out-why-we-should-leave/

I agree re Jacob Rees-Mogg as I mentioned in post 67544.

There is no doubt that leaving will bring it's problems, more so than staying in, especially in the early months, but longer term I believe it will be more beneficial to be out.
In the scheme of things DC was not asking for much and look how our EU partners kicked against that. They may try to be obstructive if we leave but they won't want to give up the trade imbalance.

As for Fred & Stan and their little Englander quips, I would say globalisation is the name of the game, there is a whole wide world out there to trade, you little Europeans.
2517

max - one of the more stupid c+p's i'm afraid

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iturama - a bit cut off your nose to spite your face i'm afraid

if uk left eu, would eu collapse?
i don't know, but it would certainly heighten the possibility, and that would have to be bad for world stability and more


if uk stays in what chance of changing some of the eu's more blatant measures of interference and monetary abuse?
not great, but assuredly nothing can be influenced by uk if we opt out


in today's world of the media, it's a shame that JRM would not (be able to) make a great PM whatever his manifold strengths and virtues
as for BJ as PM, i agree it would be pretty scary, for though he is a seriously intelligent chap he chooses to adopt a somewhat buffoonish persona which would make it difficult for him to be taken seriously on the world stage

Do you ever get off the fence c?

Why does Manuel the dishwasher remind me of these lines:

Yes, and how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, and how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind

-===-=-=


A man blind to the needs of others, but prepared to satisfy his own greed at their expense!