Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Cynic, the EU cannot go on as it is, with or without the UK. You cannot rule by committee or by bullying as is the case today. That has happened with Greece and Italy. You may say with some good reason, but who decides when bullying is good or bad?
The only logical answer to the chaos today is to revert to a common market or to an even closer political union along the lines of the USA, with an EU executive president, a federal goverment legislative branch and State legislatives. In the latter scenario, how will the UK fare, despite being in the EU? Like Mexico or Canada?
Cameron keeps banging on about a reformed EU but I dont see any reform. Just fear monging about the Russians, crime etc. We are in Nato and interpol and being outside the EU doesnt stop other agreements being made which are mutually beneficial. As it happens, when it comes to the military, we already work more closely with the US, Canada, NZ and Australia than with the EU countries.

Boris is in a tricky situation. He clearly wants to be on the winning side as it will affect his chances of being PM. If he is an outer an the Ins win then he hands it all to Osborne. If he is an in and in wins then the Eurosceptics in the party will disown him, but that might happen if he votes in anyway. He has to gamble on out winning and vote out to keep the support of the party. The Conservative MPs choose just two to be voted on for leader by the party faithful. That is why Ken Clarke didn't get selected. He was too pro Europe.

Posted up by mro across the road, good read.


http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/in-puffing-this-hollow-deal-cameron-is-treating-voters-like-fools.html

max - it's rare that i sit on the fence, but at the moment, i truly haven't decided which way to vote, though vote i most assuredly shall

fred is currently being even more arseholish than usual, and i may take the rarest of steps by filtering him, even if only temporarily ..... some p+q is quite enticing


iturama - there are many unknown things to fear in leaving, but it certainly concerns me greatly

on the other hand, i agree that the eu legislature is little more than a huge and super-bloated gravy train, spending money like zimbabwe $, and introducing all sorts of legislation, much seemingly without benefit to anyone much - eg which apples can or cannot be grown

i am also deeply disturbed that every single penurious rag, tag and bobtail country is welcomed into the fold like long-lost sons, with all the problems that they bring with them

much to consider carefully before the day

Osborne talks about a leap into the dark if we leave the EU. That is a dishonest argument. Agreed that there are more uncertainties about leaving than staying. But the certainties of staying are not very appealing.
Besides, the referendum has been on the agenda for years and it is the duty of the government to plan for all eventualities, so that there is no "leap into the dark".
The Open Europe report of 2015 that claims to be the most comprehensive regarding the economic affect of a Brexit summarised:
"This report concludes that the economic impact of Brexit is not as clear cut in either direction as most previous analyses have suggested. Instead it will depend on a number of tough decisions in the UK and Europe. This includes whether the EU itself will embrace reform and whether UK politicians and voters are willing to take Britain into the deregulated, free trading economy it would need to become outside the EU".
I believe it is far easier for the UK to deregulate further than the EU to embrace meaningful reform.

i was not talking solely about economic policy, but about more far-reaching political implications

Referendum date officially June 23

It is interesting to look back at the comments on this thread over the last couple of years. A very common statement from several posters here was that Cameron was lying and he would never hold a referendum. It was especially said by UKIP supporters.

Several of us including Hilary said that the only way to get a referendum was to vote Conservative.

I must admit I didn't think he would chance it.

But perhaps the fix is in already?


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/645531/david-cameron-european-union-eu-renegotiation-martin-schulz-angela-merkel-parliament

perhaps that article is b4 the event .......
Martin Schultz launched an astounding attack on the Prime Minister, as the vital summit in Brussels kicked off in explosive style.

It might have been c, but he hasn't withdrawn the threat.

In any case, it highlights the problems in dealing with the tower of babble.

babel!
as far as i can see, it was all empty words as the agreement was ultimately unanimous

Await the reactions!

Watched it all last night and today . What made me laugh is just how stupid Corbyn was when interviewed ,didn't give any answers just kept saying how the Tory party was split .
Idiot , all parties will be split over this ,it's not about parties it's about individuals opinions from all parties .
Now i can see where Fred and Stan get their won't / can't answer a simple question from.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3455546/PETER-OBORNE-accepts-charade-believe-Cameron-signing-political-death-warrant.html

Astonishing hypocrisy from Cornyn. He has been listing reasons for staying in the EU, when he is opposed to it. He agreed to support staying in as the price of Hilary Benn staying on as Shadow Foreign Secretary. Corbyn wanted to campaign for out.

Cornyn sees the EU as the embodiment of Capitalism, especially in their treatment of Greece. He is also upset at the EU's attempts to crush emerging left wing governments such as Portugal, Spain and Greece. Then there is the rise of the right wing in places like Poland and Hungary.

and assorted bankrupt eastern european entities who fancy the juicy handouts

The EU is very unstable with plenty of members as unhappy as the UK. If we leave it may degenerate to the point where it harms us. As we trade so heavily with the EU, we have an I retest in it being successful whether we are in or out. We are currently suffering due to very poor growth in the EU. It could be even worse without us.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-35604776

Reminds me of the waiter!