Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

EXCLUSIVE: Tory manifesto will guarantee end of free movement, UK to leave single market and no more meddling by Euro judges as May issues her cast-iron Brexit pledges

Theresa May will include specific pledges to overcome opposition in her party

Her manifesto will commit the Tories to ending European Union free movement

Tory remainers will have to sign it and it will be harder for peers to block Brexit


By Jason Groves, Political Editor For The Daily Mail

20 April 2017


Theresa May will place a triple lock on Brexit in the Tory manifesto to stop obstruction by diehard Remainers.

Tory sources say she is set to include specific pledges to overcome opposition within her party and in the Lords.

The manifesto is expected to commit the Conservatives to ending EU free movement and pulling out of both the single market and European Court of Justice.

Senior Tories see the three measures as essential in delivering last year's referendum result.




More:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4426736/Tory-manifesto-guarantee-end-free-movement.html

I'm voting twice for that once for me and once for the goat , ( not kidding ) stick that Freda .

Dil,

I remember well the Paisley and Bernadette Devlin and Civil Rights marches during late 60s and 70s in Ireland, following increasing unrest through from the 50s.

(One of the driving forces of the discontent was the iniquitous treatment of the Catholic elements of the NI population.)

Interesting summary http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern_ireland/history/299113.stm.

Throughout that period there were attempts by both “sides” to negotiate and communications existed by all flavours of government. Any sensible government would have been trying to negotiate “peaceful” and “fair” resolution of the problems

Although Corbyn was involved in backroom “talks” I do not see reference to condoning or advocating violence, but certainly he recognised the appalling lack of justice and prepared to publicly admit to it.

That did not wash well with the Unionist elements of NI or the UK government and was ramped ump by the right wing media.

I remember the public condemnation of Major and Blair for “negotiations” behind closed doors prior to and during “Peace” negotiations.
“Wars generally ends with talking together of representatives of the warring parties.”

The pain goes on for years.
-==-=-=

If you have time, have a read of A Star Called Henry by Roddy Doyle relating to the Irish uprising in the early 1900s.

It depicts the misery of that period.
-=-=-=-=-=-==-==-

PS

I can't see Mother Theresa introducing closed borders, but can see the privatisation of the NHS and destruction of the Welfare system and inability of the "poorer" members of society being able to afford university education etc..

Max,

I hope you are booking your place in the "customs" queue for when you next go on holiday to France.

(I wouldn't let you back in.)

8-)

Free movement and Closed borders isn't the same thing but suits your repetitious slagging of May whose doing a good job in my opinion .

Fred.

I have been travelling to the continent long before free movement existed.

I owned property in France, long before the €urobun and free movement.

I've never had a problem, a wave of the british passport was all that was required.




3i

Fred , why don't you go and live in Europe [ BREXIT - EXIT ]

re - Fred, why don't you go and live in Europe

I like to speculate that "Freda's" roots are from East Europe, probably the South part ( father side ) with Irish roots in the mother side.

So giving "Freda" a place on the Romanian wilderness a derelict Dracula Castle would be the solution for - Money am - main followers PEACE.

Derelict Romanian Castle

it's possible the french will be spiteful following finalised brexit, or even before, but of course it's a two-edged sword

Fred I'll have a read when I get chance but Corbyn went far beyond back room talks and was actively supporting them imo.

As I've mentioned before the NHS is worse in Wales than England and is run by a Labour controlled assembly. It needs to be taken off the political agenda and a cross party agreement should be reached on how to better fund it going forward.

Welfare system is becoming fairer and most of the moaning is done by the scrounges. I know a few people myself receiving benefits that they don't deserve and shouldn't be entitled to.

No one is advocating closed borders the argument has always been who should control who and how many we let into the country.

IG’s Conservative Election Seats market suggests a Tory majority of 90.

hmm
i have my doubts that it will be that large, but i guess anything of 40+ will more than suffice to get the job done in brussels without distraction and disruption by the snp and similar

little fred is a fool and will argue black is white, and vice versa, if someone
said sunshine makes you feel happy, fred would claim the opposite..


He's an imbecile of the highest order..There is no point in debating anything
with the moron.

fred is certainly no imbecile, but i would agree that he does get somewhat childish pleasure in tormenting you guys who unfailing rise to the bait every time

i don't think we rise to the bait really , he is obviously intelligent but prefers to act like a total dumb ass and you just want to answer him . Too set in his ways to accept any other opinion .

i "talk" to fred as and when it suits ..... most of his stuff i just leave for you guys :-)

I always thought you felt superior to everyone else here , but wondered why when you go away you feel the need to constantly be here , strange cynic . never mind .

Dil.

The problems with the NHS in Wales compared with England is the demographics and funding.

Also, the changes and degradation of in the NHS are partially due to mismanagement during and after the Coalition with its loss of understanding of the service.

Also, the demoralising of NHS staff, use of agencies for staffing as well as the wilful playing of the dissatisfactions by some medical staff.

Private practice benefits from NHS dissatisfactions.

=-=-==

A few people fiddling the books doesn't mean all or the majority do so.

I have some "tory" friends, (believe it or not, even a few members of my family are
tory supporters) who make what I describe as "false claims" and doing their damnedest to avoid "death duties" etc.. and when they break the law consider it OK for themselves to do so. (Just a silly law like speeding, parking on double lines. It is different for some people and some rules and laws.)

I think there are some daft applications of Welfare benefits, I think modifications are long overdue. It is the introductions without disregard of possible ill-effects of changes which is problematic.

One of the problems in a "democracy" is educating those who "need or would benefit from" from modifications or changes of their "lifestyles". (Like drinking too much, which is OK for those who can afford it.)

Forced "reparenting" is not acceptable, even if you can get it right.

-=====

There is a need for changes to immigration policies, but alienation and encouragement of Zenophabia are not the routes.

Why has there been a concerted effort from all parties to get the A&E waiting time down to under 4 hours? If the majority of the patience are so stupid to go there instead of waiting for a GP appointment, perhaps the funds used so inappropriately can be used more efficiently. I have never understood the logic. Perhaps I'm as dumb as the politicians.

Try getting an appointment with your GP on the day you twist your ankle, cut yourself, or "your" child has a temperature and a funny rash.

And there lies the problem. If you go to your GP when you twist your ankle or cut yourself then what a waste of GP time. As for a child with a temperature and funny rash the it should be AE not waiting for a GP