Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

68564 - off to syria is he?

Taking a leaf out of Corbyn's book, John from Lincoln writes:

I had never been able to find convincing evidence that continued membership of the EU brought any real benefits to the average Briton. I had imagined that the campaign to remain would highlight something I had missed or some detail that had hidden benefits to an average taxpayer. There has been NOTHING. What i HAVE seen and read is the usual mantra of the self interested and the business leaders that thrive on the current situation. If we all ate at "high table", holidayed on private islands or flew to join our aged parents at their Chateau then I might be persuaded - BUT WE DO NOT. The (alleged) 5th largest economy in the world has food-banks, insufficient schools, a drought of medics, austerity, third world roads and top-up benefits to ensure that people have enough to live on, but not enough to buy their homes. Nothing that I have seen or heard convince me that it is even remotely beneficial to remain in the EU. In fact our membership is dragging us down. I am voting OUT

What have you to say about that Mr Prime Minister?

Stan really doesn't have a clue ,it's sad really ,at least i have an opinion and will say what i think , how sad you are Stan you won't put your cross on anything ,too scared of leaning either way.

iturama,

my views has well nothing no benefit to the working classes only poverty and having to work till they die .
all these migrants have destroyed the brittish people 90% of migrants are supported
by the uk tax payers the jobs these migrants put nothing in but are destroying our services and it is fact
NOT ONE GOOD THING BEINGIN THE EU FOR THE BRITTISH WORKERS

VOTE OUT

HAVE JUST PHONED LADBROKES TO PUT 20K ON OUT VOTE FOR THGE 5.2 THEY WOULD NOT GIVE ME THOSE ODDS BUT OFFERED ME 7.4

Decent post from John, I don't recall anything the Remain group has said that is positive for staying in, all we have had are threats if we leave.

This club (EU) are saying if you stay in you have to play by our rules, but if you leave we will get nasty and be vindictive. That's not a club I want to be a member.
2517

It would be more helpful to be in a club where the members have a say in amending the rules and voting on their instigation.

Which by remaining in the EU a country has the ability to do. (By making a "case" for the changes and persuading others that they are mutually advantageous.)

Rather, behaving like spoilt overgrown school boys and girls and shouting and ranting "I don't like that rule, stupid rules" I am leaving the club and play by myself hoping the club fails.

''It would be more helpful to be in a club where the members have a say in amending the rules and voting on their instigation.''
Can't disagree with that, but the UK has a NONE from 72 record on that score, so quite how much influence we have can be gauged from that.
2517

Young people will vote to stay in, lucky we didn't lower the voting age and there are more oldies that will vote out

fred's point has some validity
unfortunately, many of the rules etc can only be changed where there is unanimous agreement
in something like a members' golf club, all members, whatever their background have common ground - generally a wish to better the club, and usually a majority agreement for change will suffice

the eu is nothing like that at all for it acts like a proprietary-owned golf club
it may listen to what the members have to say, and then just ignore

Then put reasons for change forward and make your arguments for suggesting the changes.

Sulking on the outside and grumbling how badly the UK is being treated is not the answer. The rules affect the whole of the organisation and drawn up to cover all of the members supposed needs.

In general, all members are affected by the same rules and moan about some. OK. argue and modify them. The rules are not written on stone.

What many seem to think is if they don't get all the goodies they dream up or wish for, they claim foul and don't want to pay their share of the bill.


(I would think it is preferable to avoid the ability to veto, but I bet the UK government would not like to give theirs up. That applies to the UN. as well.)

'' OK. argue and modify them.''

NONE from 72 record on that score
2517

UN Security Council can be outgunned by by just one or is it two vetoes
china and russia do it frequently ..... or like israel, any move UN tries rto make is just ignored

the major concern if uk votes "out", is whether or not eu will be on the road to collapse, and perhaps sooner rather than later
some might chortle at that idea, but politically it could be disastrous and would certainly have russia rubbing its hands with glee

Don't you think Merkle sees that Cynic? Hollande is probably too thick, like our Dave. It is Nato that keeps the peace in europe, not the EU. And I would be more worried about the resolve of that other dipstick, Obama, when it comes to Russia. Despite all the cuts, the UK is still rated the most powerful military force in europe; behind the US, Russia, China and India in global terms.

am i scaremongering?

some might say that, but i think it's a cause for real worry

There are intelligence reports that Putin is increasing bombing of civilians in Syria to increase pressure on the EU and destabilise it with massive influx of migrants.

It is certainly possible that the UK leaving the EU could cause an economic shock to plunge the EU into a serious recession. That in turn would affect us severely and almost certainly caue global economic problems. We might have to endure another 2008 style crash and not gain any benefits from leaving for 5 to 10 years.

so now how does one vote?

Putin may be trying to destabilise Europe but he doesn't have the forces to take on Nato. He knows that. He might be encouraged to nibble at the edges in bites that he thinks will not justify a full Nato intervention. Latvia, Estonia etc. After all Syria crossed a so called Obama "red line" with inpunity.

P 68580.

Reminds of Clinton remark about what matters was "It is the economy stupid!"

I see as I said earlier that The EU pays Turkey 3 bn euros to provide shelter for refugees and such . but apparently Erdogan the mad dog is not carrying out this service as they are pooring over borders to the EU . You know Merkel the Mad woman who seems to think you pay big money to solve problems and they go away , wants Turkey in the EU , well Erdogan wants 30 billion euros to do the job YES 30 BILLION TO KEEP THE REFUGEES from EU .