Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

duplicated

George,

Theresa Maybe is seen by many as the Donald Trump of Europe.

I think many in Europe are fed up with recent adolescent blusterings of said UK political negotiators who irritate with their patronising superiority.

A little more humility may save them from being seen scuttling around Europe and the rest of the world with begging bowls in their hands.

The threats and attempts at bullying by the Matron and cronies are recognised as necessary to placate and satisfy the needs of her own party of right wing misfits.

it's obvious little fred know's absolutely nothing about negotiations, and the
shennenigans that politicians get up to, or the spiel they give when an election
is in the pipeline..ie: Merkel.

Maybe the Tory's and T.May give the impression of having the trump hand or
are confident of getting a good deal for the UK, but the EU have being giving
out their threats and demands, which is understandable from both sides
at the commencement of talks, but for little fred to lay all the 'adolescent
blustering's' and 'UK negotiators' who 'irritate' with their 'patronising' superiority.

And little fred wanting more 'humility', obviously referring to UK negotiators, and
the rest of his biased accusations of the UK negotiating position, but absolutely NO
condemnation of the Brussels eurocrats stance and revenge diatribes, shows
who's side this individual is on...

So the opinion of this weasle is one to be ridiculed and challenged at every opportunity.

I think many in Europe are fed up with recent adolescent blusterings of said UK political negotiators who irritate with their patronising superiority.

you could just as justifiably comment the same of "Brussels' political negotiators who irritate with their patronising superiority"

Brussels only in name. Both Juncker and Tusk report directly to Merkel. The other 26 are serf or dependent states (as long as they continue to receive money). The politics behind the appointment of Juncker makes good reading and shows how Merkel, with her gormless lackey, Hollande, manipulates the power in the EU in order to strengthen her domestic position. Now she is worried about her exposure to the EU budget. I prefer the UK hand in the negotiation.The cards it holds are obvious and the default position for the UK should be to leave without paying an extra cent beyond legally contracted.

An interesting read, and spot on


https://wealth.goldmoney.com/research/goldmoney-insights/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-eu

As you say MaxK, an interesting read

oops

oops 2

Interesting indeed especially if your German , French or Italian.

Good luck to them I think they are going to need it without us and it could all have been avoided if they had offered Cameron a sensible deal.

Interesting read max .

Yes. A good one, Max

Here's one of the most important bits:

There is a further problem. Brussels has spending commitments over and above the official budget, which at the end of 2016 stood at a massive €238bn. These are commitments incurred but not yet paid for, reste à liquider in the jargon.

It includes capital projects and various items such as future pension liabilities for Commission staff. This extra expenditure forms the basis for claims that the UK will have to pay an estimated €60billion as part of the Brexit settlement. Legal advice to a House of Lords sub-committee is that the UK has no liability for this amount, and given it was contracted without Britain’s explicit agreement, its status is certainly questionable. It also ignores the value of Britain’s property rights, accumulated during her membership.

If Britain successfully argues that it has no liability, or at least a significantly lesser one, a funding crisis for the Commission seems certain to ensue. But the imperative in Brussels is to continually expand in order not to lose its reforming momentum, so cutting back has never been on anyone’s agenda, and no one knows where to start.

Brexit: UK could be asked to pay €100bn divorce bill

http://news.sky.com/story/eu-could-demand-8364100bn-brexit-divorce-bill-10861192

This fight is going to be quite frightening, IMHO.

- for us if we resist paying it.

- for the EU if they don't get it. They have spent money like pouring water.

I'm glad we are getting out, which is what my family voted for, because the EU wasn't being run democratically.

i wonder if fred will pick up on the fact that there has been no true democracy since athenian times .... and even that had its flaws

Democracy is fine.

It is the corrupt Bs. who misuse it are the problem.

Other problems are "true values", or what we "truly" value and they vary in opinion from one person to another.

bit like radical muslims and the q'ran then :-)

I was thinking of the Crosby handbook given to Maybe at party meetings in No 10.

you're too blinkered :-)

Is that Bing Crosby again .

The EU owe the UK GBP 274 billion.