Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

oops

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Interesting indeed especially if your German , French or Italian.

Good luck to them I think they are going to need it without us and it could all have been avoided if they had offered Cameron a sensible deal.

Interesting read max .

Yes. A good one, Max

Here's one of the most important bits:

There is a further problem. Brussels has spending commitments over and above the official budget, which at the end of 2016 stood at a massive €238bn. These are commitments incurred but not yet paid for, reste à liquider in the jargon.

It includes capital projects and various items such as future pension liabilities for Commission staff. This extra expenditure forms the basis for claims that the UK will have to pay an estimated €60billion as part of the Brexit settlement. Legal advice to a House of Lords sub-committee is that the UK has no liability for this amount, and given it was contracted without Britain’s explicit agreement, its status is certainly questionable. It also ignores the value of Britain’s property rights, accumulated during her membership.

If Britain successfully argues that it has no liability, or at least a significantly lesser one, a funding crisis for the Commission seems certain to ensue. But the imperative in Brussels is to continually expand in order not to lose its reforming momentum, so cutting back has never been on anyone’s agenda, and no one knows where to start.

Brexit: UK could be asked to pay €100bn divorce bill

http://news.sky.com/story/eu-could-demand-8364100bn-brexit-divorce-bill-10861192

This fight is going to be quite frightening, IMHO.

- for us if we resist paying it.

- for the EU if they don't get it. They have spent money like pouring water.

I'm glad we are getting out, which is what my family voted for, because the EU wasn't being run democratically.

i wonder if fred will pick up on the fact that there has been no true democracy since athenian times .... and even that had its flaws

Democracy is fine.

It is the corrupt Bs. who misuse it are the problem.

Other problems are "true values", or what we "truly" value and they vary in opinion from one person to another.

bit like radical muslims and the q'ran then :-)

I was thinking of the Crosby handbook given to Maybe at party meetings in No 10.

you're too blinkered :-)

Is that Bing Crosby again .

The EU owe the UK GBP 274 billion.

Who worked that out for you Diane Abbott ???

:}

The Kipper and Brexiters' position.

Did you get up early just for that .

Did I hear correctly yesterday that the EU wants its citizens living here after Brexit to be governed by EU law not UK ?

Which is why she hasn't jumped the gun and said they can all stay ,all this needs negotiating
All these bloody lefties jumping up and down screaming that we should just say everyone can stay .
While the EU seem intent on making anything difficult .