Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Corbyn has been sweet talking the electorate and bribing students. Goodie bags for all. One Labour government maxed out its credit card, the incoming Conservativ substantially paid it down, now Corbyn wants to max it out again.

On the face of it, the bookies have been getting it wrong, altho I suspect the predictions from them have been designed to suit their book rather than any far reaching insight.

My problem with a big tory win is Treesa, as I don't trust her.

Is the problem though MaxK there is no one else to trust .

I was thinking maybe wrongly that as we voted out , we should have a new thread on here going into negotiations and such , hopefully with the Cons .

why are you so naive to think that leaving EU could ever be simple, even if one truly wanted it to be

I still think TM will win the forthcoming election but it's the sort of time when you get polls all over the place...it happens all the time just before the final sprint...ftse is far too high...and the pound far too low so a correction both ways is overdue....and probably crude is undervalued....

Dysfunctional' EU has plunged into existential crisis, George Soros warns

Not a great fan of George Soros but his article in the DT makes a lot of sense in my book. But will the EU heed? Doubt it because Germany has to be the first to change its ways and it's not in its nature.

Let's be fair ....a lot of Europeans are envious of the the UK getting a good deal out of Brexit...and I think we will....

If you consider taking your begging bowls to Brussels.

A good deal, perfect deal. (Horse Sh. in a "strong and stable". strikes me to having the smell of the stables which needs cleaning out.)

Talking of stinking smell..I see little fred has posted another bag of B.S..

But that's the problem the EU face Fred , we aren't begging for anything so unless they want to play fair then they can sod off.

It's the EU begging us for alimony not the other way round and remember no freedom of movement was in the Labour manifesto too so over 80% voted at the election for a party that couldn't be part of the single Union.

fred assuredly likes to rattle your cages, and every time you lot rise to the bait - sorry to mix the metaphors

some here would have liked a "drawbridges up" deal, but that was never likely to happen
for better (or worse if that is your opinion) there will now be a much softer deal struck than might previously have been possible

very glad indeed that i can sit back and watch rather than sit in the hot seat of these negotiations .... a singularly unenviable job

cynic I have never understood the difference between a hard and soft Brexit so how do you define it ?

My take on things is that we are happy to do a trade deal with them but will not accept freedom of movement as a condition and neither should we pay for what is essentially in both our interests.

The French will probably be the biggest obstacle and Spain will keep bringing up Gibraltar to muddy the waters and try and get themselves a favourable fishing deal. Fun and games ahead but the option to walk away may end up being the best one.

the spanish have no clout for all sorts of reasons
they and the french to a lesser extent, rape fish stocks and i would not have thought it impossible to tighten up on vessel registration/licences to help minimise this

i think the freedom of movement issue is not quite the problem as it was, in that mainland europe itself belatedly recognises the problems that has brought in its wake
certainly a good tweak would be to strictly limit relatives who can accompany, and more importantly the level of benefits that can be claimed, albeit tapering with time .... i certainly like the idea that they should be linked back to "country of origin"

==============

"hard brexit" as some here would advocate, effectively meant no negotiation or compromise at all
i do not believe that was ever going to happen, the sabre-rattling being merely that

Martin Lewis on "In or Out?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwRmz7kQIhc

This is very well worth worth watching.

The date is 22 Feb 2016

See how George Galloway deals with a very nasty piece of work ('bitch', IMHO), namely Presenter Jo Coburn, on the BBC's Daily Politics programme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32hgwUYpWbE

From the 'Martin Lewis' "In or Out?" above:

EU fees have become a hot potato politically, but it’s worth establishing the scale of the debate.

– The size of the UK’s annual economic activity was £1,800 billion in 2015.
– The annual fees to the EU in 2015 were £18bn, but we get a rebate, after that the fees are £13bn, plus there’s the money the EU spends in the UK; so, what it actually costs us is £8.5bn.

So, while fees for the EU club are huge, they’re dwarfed by the scale of our economy. That doesn’t diminish them as a political issue, but it does mean they can’t be viewed in isolation.

Just a 1% economic change is £18bn a year. The IN campaign’s worst-case figure says Brexit could cost 7.5%, so that’s £135bn. Some OUT economists say the gain could be 4%, so £72bn. Regardless of which is right, it shows how you think the nation’s finances will swing should outweigh your view on fees.

Fees are more substantial compared with the Government’s £700bn annual spending. Adding £13bn (what we give the EU after the rebate) to that would have an impact. Though again, it’s still only equivalent to the change in the Government’s income from a roughly 1% move in the economy.

Germany's Schaeuble wants Brexit to cause minimum damage for all

BERLIN, June 13 (Reuters) - Germany wants a solution for Britain's planned exit from the European Union that results in minimum damage for everyone, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said on Tuesday.

"We want a solution that causes as little damage as possible for both sides," said Schaeuble in a speech in Berlin, adding that London would remain an important financial market place for Europe after Britain had left the bloc.

that's a major u-turn but welcome for all that

Reality dawning?