Hi All

Looking to gain a small following for an experiment, gonna spreadbet 1,000 of my own hard earned with a view not to stop until I hit 25,000 or lose the lot!!

It'll be across a range of Index, equity & FX trades starting small and building the pot (or lose the lot) will be using flat stops and running profits with trailing stops.

If you want to follow every trade and watch the spiral up or down feel free to follow me on www.twitter.com/eyetrader - where I'll be simply be posting each trade as I click the mouse

BTW this is not spam, I'm not selling anything, I dont want any donations, more of a personal challenge that I'm going to conduct in public!!!! I'm hoping to see a few tips on here as well as my own strategies and ideas.

Lastly I'll be donating 5,000 of the profit (if/when I make it) to charity

May the slaughter commence :)

Eyetrader

There are so many studies so many types of trading style that I felt I'd give this ago using a mixture of all that I know (and have a small belief in) I've come to the conclusion that I'll be mostly trend trading but also looking at the short term sentiment. I've put my first trade on the order book in the hope the ftse has a short rally at open as the dow rallied around 90/100 points in the last hour of trading. As Monday is presidents day in the US my view is a positive figure come the end of the day also watching USD/NOK for those big spikes up and then follow the spike down. Stops will be tight so no chance of going bust on day one ;)
eyetrader

Sounds like a plan:o)

I wonder if this guy is still going - no updates since Feb 17th.

That opening post bit about "..until I hit 25,000 or lose the lot!!.." appears to imply that losing the lot (ie the 1000) is the worst-case downside. It isn't. It is possible to lose far more than the starting sum and slip thousands of pounds into debt unless very VERY carefully monitored and managed.

Eyetrader's Twitter link still shows only one week of trading, back in February. Can we presume it didn't work out? Will s/he be coming back here to let us know?


PS: I have my own spreadbetting exercise under way at the moment. Running for 12 months from yesterday morning (1st Oct) to 30th Sept 2011, starting with 14,000 and hoping to generate gains totalling 19,500 during that time. Logging my trades for everyone to see is far too laborious - especially as I started off with a portfolio of 40 stocks and will be constantly adjusting stakes. I am using non-guaranteed trailing stoplosses.

Those 40 stocks tie up about 57% of my 14k at present. That will vary, but I will always hold about a quarter of the pot as cash. Most bets are longterm ones (expiring March or June 2011) at minimal stakes. A few are bigger bets. From time to time I will place additional short-term bets at bigger stakes (for hours or a few days) to capitalise on particular opportunities when they arise.

Although I'm not going to display all activity, I think I might set up a blog someplace, for progress reports and observations. Or to announce that it didn't work!


PPS: Although the bets are mostly placed with distant expiry dates (and accordingly cost me a bigger spread than shorter term ones would), I will quite often be stopped out within days or weeks, and will be switching to other replacement stocks. This is not the most economical way to run a spreadbet portfolio - but it happens to suit my particular approach and is something allowed for in my costings.

14,000 plus 19,500 is 33,500 which might sound ambitious. But that is a multiple of about 2.39 which is way short of the 25-fold increase that eyecatcher was gunning for.


PPPS: One day is hardly of significance - but just for interest, Day One ended at 14,075. That's about half a per cent up. And flukily, 75 per day, were it happen every day (which it won't of course) is exactly on track. (75 x5 = 375 per week x52 = 19,500), and is the rough daily figure I used to arrive at that target in the first place!

Hi Juzzle, good luck with your endeavour.

I'm sort of doing a similar thing, which started June 16, but on a smaller scale. My daughter is planning to marry in 2013, so with the expected huge costs of this in mind, I've stuffed 3k in a dedicated spread betting account with no particlar target in mind, but a return of 10k would be quite acceptable!

The account will have at least one risk stock, with the potential to multi-bag, without crippling the account if it tanks and the remainder low-medium risk. I'm also looking for short term momentum plays and will jump onboard BB hyped stocks for a quick return if I can spot them early enough.

I kind of got carried away on Friday and quickly realised I had tied up 100% of my capital which resulted in binning a profitable high risk trade (GOLDPLAT) which I think I will regret, in favour of smaller lower risk positions. I now have a 35% cash position which I intend to maintain unless something with quick potential pops up. I'll also be looking to scalp trades on FX/Indices if I can spot a decent opportunity.

The account got of to an awful start when my first high risk trade (DES) hit a duster, but has since recovered.

Thus far 9 trades have resulted in a net profit of 1426.20 (7 winners / 2 losers) with a further five open positions (one of which is an AIM dog, but has a decent return potential or a 350 loss).

Like you, I'm not going to list every trade, but I certainly have high hopes for AFR and assuming all goes well, I'll be trying to build a significant position (50pp at the moment - Edit: Stop at 97p)

Again, good luck to you :-)

Thanks pt. Good luck with yours too.

In my case the logic behind the starting size and target is related to the needs of a friend who is watching. She is being made redundant in a couple of months time, and will be getting 14k, but is expecting to have difficulty finding a replacement job. She is reasonably experienced in sharedealing and spreadbetting, but has not regarded it as more than a way to enhance her savings. She asked me if I thought she stood any chance at all of generating a partial income from such a small capital sum, as a supplement to a part-time job, instead of seeking fulltime work. Or even achieving a fulltime living income. I suggested the latter was over-ambitious, but we nevertheless picked a notional requirement of 20,000 pa gain, which would be 384.615 per week (that would be enough to not need any part time job).

In her case she would be taking this kind of money off the table every week on average. To stay ahead of the curve and maintain that 14k capital whilst withdrawing what amounts to about 2.75% from it each week(!) is a pretty severe challenge. For simplicity we rounded off the target to 75 gain per day (375 per week). That would generate 19,500pa, which equates to about 139% gain over the year, at 2.68% per week non-compounded. (Compounding gains and working with whatever larger sum that created, would obviously be a darn sight easier - but I'm working on the assumption that she would be withdrawing gains almost as fast as they are made).


PS: There may be weeks in which no gain is made, in which case maintaining the weekly average would involve making more than twice the target in other weeks. And an even greater performance if having to redress weeks that show a loss. I might be able to do that in this exercise, but she might not be able to in reality, as her requirement for a routine income would mean attacking the capital.

Hi Juzzle

Clearly your challange is greater than mine! As you've pointed out, meeting your target only will not increase the capital and therefore limit the opportunities compunded gains would provide. Also, losing weeks, which are probably inevitable, will further reduce the capital and thus the margin available for re-investment. Ideally, you could do with a cracking start, which would provide a buffer against those eventualities. What is quite clear from your post is that anyone seeking to earn a living from trading needs more in the pot than that which has been calculated to provide an income (even based on realistic returns).

Yes. I need to hit the ground running and make gains in the early weeks, otherwise the shrinking capital makes it harder to continue. Though even if I achieve that, there is no saying that the market will be similarly friendly in whatever month she starts.

And this is probably a bad time to start - after such a good September. Especially as October is so often a month of turmoil! There is every likelihood that people will be cashing in their recent good gains at the slightest hint of a market fall.

Good luck guys and keep us all posted! Personally I never trade (spreadbetting) more than 3 stocks at a time and unless it's a no brainer stay away from Indices and Forex trading. This works for me trading stocks that I know well.

skinny - re eyetrader, hope I'm wrong and he's made a fortune but the impression I got from the few trades he actually posted was that he got wiped out in the first week :O)

Chris - I guess the same! I wish you chaps all the best with the sb venture. I use it mainly for index trading and to offset real positions. I'm not convinced you can "earn" a living from that method of trading - but am looking forward to both of you proving me wrong!

Certainly not trying to make a living out of SB'ing Skinny, but a hefty return would be nice. By using a dedicated account for this particular venture, I can keep the daughter appraised of progress, or lack of! She isn't going to lose out whatever happens.

I think eyetrader is now selling the Big Issue

Just two trades today (one FX & one DJ) resulted in a small profit of 50, so total profit thus far now 1476.20, representing a 49.21% return on capital.

It's probably worth mentioing that although I started this venture June 16, I didn't actually place a second trade until Sep 14.

Average return per trade (11) 134.20.

Currently four open long positions, which despite a down FTSE day are flat in comparison to Friday's close, with a paper profit of 107.58.

it's much easier to turn 25k into 1k!

Off you go then Ricardo, demonstrate how it's done!

i did much better than that several years ago - made myself a most generous benefactor in redistributing many many pennies

would you have expected anyother sort of answer from mr cyners???:))

i'm afraid it's true ...... hindsight's wonderful, and i genuinely don't think i would have blundered as badly (blind and unbridled greed and stupidity) today as i did then .... at least i avoid CGT for a long time to come!

LOL same old cyners dryer than ever but he makes a valid point.

Can you make a living from 14 grand starting pot...... yes but you have to be able to goth both ways in the market ie, short aswell and I would probably stick to stocks only.

Strict discipline aswell more than anything, easier said than done.

Big problem coming up with stops, ie do you use them or do you risk being wiped out totaly if we get a terrorist attack.

My rules are something like this.....

- dont touch oilys and miners plus biotechs...too risky

- try and stay away from volatile stocks unless you are intraday trading

- never play a stock with a beta of one or higher

- make sure stop if used is far enough away from morning spike

- go for a target of 20% profit or higher if resistance is further away

- use level 2 for entry but if you havent this buy a stock when the spread is tightest and probably when a bout of selling has just taken place, try to get off to a good entry start, this helps to not play catch up later.

- dont go for a big spread stock where the bet size entry is bigger than your acceptable loss. you wont catch up in most cases

- never use more than 2% of your whole pot on one single bet, ie, thats as much as you are allowed to lose on your stop loss so position it accordingly

- make sure you dont overtrade and risk a margin call

- be carefull which 1/4trly bet you go for. If theres only a few weeks to go before expiry pick the later quarters bet even though you pay more in spread

- make sure you have a grasp of charts and TA

- always use ATR average true range on your charts..... this gives you idea of volatility

- read up on the companys results dates, ex divi dates trading statement dates etc etc.

- flog a stock before the news comes out day

- stick to a system and tweak it if needs be

- take a few days break and close out entitre portfolio every now and again

- dont get caught up in data watching or you will be panicked out of some positions

- cut losses fast and let winners run

- use trailing stops after a profit is established and move the stop in tighter , not too tight though

- at all times try to preserve capital base, your still in the game that way

- read as many books on trading as possible but dont over do it or youl end up with hyper tension and producing too much cortisol

- last but not least follow all goldfingers tips...... they are ace.

ps, keep an eye on inter market relationships.

remember we are a global economy now.