im trying to start day trading for a living and have read many books and have applied there ideas all of which have failed.So my question is what is the best couple of indicators to use? any advice appreciated on this matter

Big Al has just halved Moneyam's membership, and that deserves a round of.....mines a G & T Al...Ta
;-).....The Human mind is so complicated....has trouble with simple messages.
regards

teletigger - I doubt it! Cheers! ;-))

Forgot to say earlier what a fine post JonP put together. I'd wholeheartedly agree with everything, particularly that if you cock it up, learn from that mistake. The more you make (initially) the better you'll be!

Al

Matty, take Jon Ps advice and don't give up the day job!

I think Big Al is a trifle over pessimistic though. I don't have the mortgage but I have the kids, dog and school fees and seem to be able to make a pretty good living out of it! The thing Big Al seems to me really good at and I found it really difficult to learn, is to know when to sell at loss before the loss gets too big. It is easy to believe if you thought the fundamentals were right when you bought it, that it will come back up again - that is often not the case, and in any event, you can probably buy it back at a lower point and set your loss against gains. I still have trouble with selling at loss - making the gains is relatively easy.

Start as a hobby, read, read and read then see how quickly you can make your CGT allowance. It is a good starting point. Problem is with the access to all the information available it can become all time consuming - just look at the time in the evening people are still reading threads on Money am. You have to keep a life!

The very best of luck.

Jennifer

Apologies now to all, but am new to this, can anyone explain simply the term "daytrader"

Thanks

Simon

jj

Wasn't meaning to be pessimistic - sorry! I think it depends on what you have as a cash target. If your aim is to make your tax-free sum in terms of CGT, then that is entirely feasible, but I took "making a living" to be somewhat in excess of that. To me the cash up to CGT allowance is for the "extras" in life, but it couldn't be considered an income to live on, if you get my drift. 8k might pay the food bill for a year, but little else.

By a living, I thought the implication was 25k upwards.

As regards reducing losses, I should explain I trade almost exclusively on TA. Fundies mean little - I tried that and the market told me things weren't cheap enough yet so I gave up. ;-)) But, you are correct, the major thing I have learned is that moeny management is everything.

Cut the losses, run a gain lock and the profits will take care of themselves.

But, then again, that is a trading mentality and not a buy&hold mentality, by and large.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. Hope it helps, matty1.

Genovese1

Tricky question as there are many types of traders. In its purest form a daytrader is someone who opens and closes trades to make (or lose) money within the timeframe of 1 trading day, i.e. 8:00-16:30.

Other forms of trading can be those who intend holding postions from overnight to a few days and then a few weeks before closing.

It is different from investing in that you are looking to trade on other things than company valuations, be it charts, the expectation of goods results or newsflow in a week or two, etc, etc.

It probably also encompasses that fact that traders have the ability to trade on share prices going down as well as up and (hopefully) make money both directions.

Al
;-)

A day trader - that's me. I never hold a position overnight - well once or twice by accident ending in a big loss 'cos I was spooked!! So no positions over night = I get lots of sleep. My trades are often 20 minutes or an hour or two maybe 4 hours. Small profits (to a target), lots of them hopefully!!! Something like that. If it makes sense!!

Of course if smeone disagress by all means ...........

cheers,

john

You are a pure one, John!

;-)

Personally, I do intraday, days, weeks. Can't say I lose much sleep either. LOL!

You lovely helpful lot.

Now I know what I was doing wrong.

I don't have a Day Job!

:)

"..im trying to start day trading for a living and have read many books and have applied there ideas all of which have failed. So my question is what is the best couple of indicators to use? Any advice appreciated on this matter.."


Matty - I'm not being rude in saying this, so please don't take offence. But when someone says they've tried numerous reccommended approaches "and all have failed", my first suspicion is maybe it's the player that's responsible for that, not the system?

There are people who, over the years, have tried every diet there is, and still don't lose weight. They spend an entire lifetime switching from one system to another and never spot that the common denominator in all these failed diets is themselves.

In your case it may well be that this isn't true - and the next system you come across works. But if the systems that fail for you appear to work for others, it is worth spending some time on self analysis - identifying character traits that just will not ever work with certain systems or timeframes, so you don't keep trying ones that just don't suit you.

In my own case, for example, I know my mind just isn't quick enough to make decisions fast enough to tackle some of the rapid-fire techniques that some daytraders employ. I am likely to freeze if pressured to decide in 10 seconds, time after time. I leave that to others. (Computer games quicker than the original ping-pong ones are beyond me).

If you do find a system that works for you, it is quite likely that the "works for you" part of that sentence will be the important bit. You need to find (or rather, create) a system that is tailored to suit you. If you just keep test-driving one ready-made high-powered system after another, you are likely to keep crashing, and lose heart. Start by assessing what does and doesn't work for you in your various other activities in life, and work out how those aptitudes and limitations might be applied to whatever kind of trading you are considering.

And finally (you might already realise this so excuse me preaching) - daytrading is not just investing with a shorter timeframe - it is a totally different ballgame, with different rules, and a different mindset.


Juzzle

Big Al, I absolutely agree, you need well in excess of 25k. - that's the school fees per annum! My suggestion was if doing it as a hobby, at the very least to go for the 8,200, which I was anticipating making in the first month or so. Didn't mean to mislead - for a linguist my use of words was obviously poor, more on a par with my maths ability. Sorry!

Personally, I day trade half my holdings and the other half goes with the flow - not a professional approach I am sure.

Regards

jj - could do with twice the CGT for school fees myself! ;-))

No offence meant BTW. I figured Marty was intending daytrading as the only income and not just the "added bonus"!!

;-))

Matty1 - All of the points above are a must, keep the day job and set up some live feeds and trade US stocks with CFD,s ( on paper first ) as this will allow you to get the PM session in US and a feel for real time trades, beware though more volatile than UK so get a good plan / stock selection to work on. This will also give you an indication of the time frame you prefer to hold and risk levels. Forget the first income and live on only your trades after all this is what you must do if you want to do it full time. There is more pressure as each trade is your money. Try it, if you can not walk away from a loss ( learning your mistake ) and forget it, in other words thinking I have not made enough, short on my targets, how can I pay the bills, then best to forget it for a job as this will happen. to trade for a living is not only good methods, systems etc. it is a battle over your emotions, some can handle it some can not. LOL in what ever you decide.

it's v. simple imo - if you know what you are doing and it's been commercially viable already for a couple of years go for it - however if you don't know how to trade skillfully and consistently you are in for a shock. Treat it like any other business proposition!

matty get a really good trading screen set up. I recommend updata realtime. Set up your indicators and then back test using the updata simulator which adds or subtracts from your `fantasy` pot

A lot of people `lean` on other people for ideas but it is best to trial and error your own system. Often the best learning trades are the wrong ones so anyone starting out use a small pot (100) and trade in pence with fins

Snip,

Have you tried Updata P&F charts either for day or swing trading? I believe they are the best available would but would like to hear it from a practioner.

Also heard lots of bad things about Updata but also that they have improved greatly in recent months.

Would appreciate your views.

Regards
Harlosh.