Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Talking of stinking smell..I see little fred has posted another bag of B.S..

But that's the problem the EU face Fred , we aren't begging for anything so unless they want to play fair then they can sod off.

It's the EU begging us for alimony not the other way round and remember no freedom of movement was in the Labour manifesto too so over 80% voted at the election for a party that couldn't be part of the single Union.

fred assuredly likes to rattle your cages, and every time you lot rise to the bait - sorry to mix the metaphors

some here would have liked a "drawbridges up" deal, but that was never likely to happen
for better (or worse if that is your opinion) there will now be a much softer deal struck than might previously have been possible

very glad indeed that i can sit back and watch rather than sit in the hot seat of these negotiations .... a singularly unenviable job

cynic I have never understood the difference between a hard and soft Brexit so how do you define it ?

My take on things is that we are happy to do a trade deal with them but will not accept freedom of movement as a condition and neither should we pay for what is essentially in both our interests.

The French will probably be the biggest obstacle and Spain will keep bringing up Gibraltar to muddy the waters and try and get themselves a favourable fishing deal. Fun and games ahead but the option to walk away may end up being the best one.

the spanish have no clout for all sorts of reasons
they and the french to a lesser extent, rape fish stocks and i would not have thought it impossible to tighten up on vessel registration/licences to help minimise this

i think the freedom of movement issue is not quite the problem as it was, in that mainland europe itself belatedly recognises the problems that has brought in its wake
certainly a good tweak would be to strictly limit relatives who can accompany, and more importantly the level of benefits that can be claimed, albeit tapering with time .... i certainly like the idea that they should be linked back to "country of origin"

==============

"hard brexit" as some here would advocate, effectively meant no negotiation or compromise at all
i do not believe that was ever going to happen, the sabre-rattling being merely that

Martin Lewis on "In or Out?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwRmz7kQIhc

This is very well worth worth watching.

The date is 22 Feb 2016

See how George Galloway deals with a very nasty piece of work ('bitch', IMHO), namely Presenter Jo Coburn, on the BBC's Daily Politics programme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32hgwUYpWbE

From the 'Martin Lewis' "In or Out?" above:

EU fees have become a hot potato politically, but it’s worth establishing the scale of the debate.

– The size of the UK’s annual economic activity was £1,800 billion in 2015.
– The annual fees to the EU in 2015 were £18bn, but we get a rebate, after that the fees are £13bn, plus there’s the money the EU spends in the UK; so, what it actually costs us is £8.5bn.

So, while fees for the EU club are huge, they’re dwarfed by the scale of our economy. That doesn’t diminish them as a political issue, but it does mean they can’t be viewed in isolation.

Just a 1% economic change is £18bn a year. The IN campaign’s worst-case figure says Brexit could cost 7.5%, so that’s £135bn. Some OUT economists say the gain could be 4%, so £72bn. Regardless of which is right, it shows how you think the nation’s finances will swing should outweigh your view on fees.

Fees are more substantial compared with the Government’s £700bn annual spending. Adding £13bn (what we give the EU after the rebate) to that would have an impact. Though again, it’s still only equivalent to the change in the Government’s income from a roughly 1% move in the economy.

Germany's Schaeuble wants Brexit to cause minimum damage for all

BERLIN, June 13 (Reuters) - Germany wants a solution for Britain's planned exit from the European Union that results in minimum damage for everyone, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said on Tuesday.

"We want a solution that causes as little damage as possible for both sides," said Schaeuble in a speech in Berlin, adding that London would remain an important financial market place for Europe after Britain had left the bloc.

that's a major u-turn but welcome for all that

Reality dawning?

Germans will be fair it's the bloody French who will be awkward.

The difference between Germany and France is the workplace in France is ruled
by the unions, and so no matter what customers/business they lose they will still
be paid by France law, until the state goes bust..

i wonder if macron will manage to clip the unions' wings at all
they certainly need to be

UK government appoints Brexit backer as City minister

LONDON, June 14 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May has appointed Brexit supporter Stephen Barclay as "City minister" to oversee a financial services sector facing upheaval as Britain prepares to leave the European Union.

Barclay, whose formal title is economic secretary to the treasury, is likely to be responsible for financial services policy and the government's relationship with firms such as banks, insurers and asset managers.

Before he was elected to parliament in 2010, Barclay worked in financial regulation and then financial crime prevention at Barclays retail bank, according to his website. A lawyer by training, he supported leaving the EU at last year's referendum.

Banks, trading platforms, insurers and asset managers in London are already making plans to open new bases in other parts of the EU, fearing a loss of access to the single market after March 2019 when Britain is due to leave the bloc.

"His appointment comes at a time when the City's voice must be heard loud and clear," a City of London Corporation spokeswoman said.

Barclay's experience in financial services will come as a relief after his predecessor, Simon Kirby, who lost his seat in last week's general election, dismayed the sector for having too little knowledge of finance at a critical time.

"A good appointment to key role in HM Treasury," tweeted Mark Hoban, a former City minister who heads a City-based group looking at how financial services can adapt to Brexit.

The return of a minority government in last week's election has raised hope in the financial sector for a "softer" Brexit, meaning some access to the EU market would be maintained.

As City minister, Kirby had been stripped of his remit in overseeing the impact of Brexit on Britain's large banking sector, a role handed to Lucy Neville-Rolfe, who quit this week.

A finance ministry spokeswoman said the exact responsibilities of junior finance ministers had not been finalised.

Hammond flexes muscles over Brexit - BBC - Kamal Ahmed

It is the first significant reassurance to businesses that the government is ready to step in with extra financial support as the Brexit deal is negotiated.
The chancellor has made it clear to his allies he wants jobs and the economy to be the first consideration as Britain leaves the European Union.

His approach is described by some as a "soft" Brexit, meaning that the UK keeps closer ties to the single market and possibly stays within the customs union.
Even if that means making more financial contributions to the EU.
Softer approach

It is certainly different in tone from pre-election comments by the Prime Minister that "no deal is better than a bad deal".
At the Mansion House speech tonight, Philip Hammond will say that £48bn of funds from the European Union's investment bank will not be put at risk.

The European Investment Bank (EIB) provides funding for infrastructure projects across the EU, such as the building of the Crossrail train line in London, and tram networks in Nottingham and Manchester.

It lends at preferential rates to EU members and some thought the source of financing could be at risk as the UK approaches the departure date of March 2019.
But the government will now act as final guarantor for those funds if the EIB demands extra assurances on the financial viability of the projects.
The Treasury says it will use financing available from the British Business Bank to cover any shortfalls the UK faces.

Although the guarantee is likely to be welcomed by business - which has often felt locked out of the Brexit process - much more important is the tone Mr Hammond will strike in his speech tonight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40283236

'We can't allow second Brexit' Eurozone must reform or more will leave, warns Spain

THE eurozone cannot afford another country to leave the bloc after Britain's groundbreaking vote to leave last year, Spain's economy minister has warned.

Aggressive changes are now needed across the single currency area to stop countries following Britain's lead, said Luis de Guindos.

The minister called for a closer knit eurozone with one treasury that can force economic and market reforms on to all member states.

The Brexit vote and Donald Trump's presidency are reasons why the eurozone must change, according to the minister.

He told the FT: “There are doubts about fragmentation at the world level and that means we are now more dependent on our own decisions.

“We cannot allow a second Brexit.

"We have to keep together.” ..........

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/817581/Eurozone-latest-news-Reform-Brexit-Spain

shame it's come from the express, but if true, then i couldn't agree more

the very reason i voted "out" was because i could see no way that the eurozone would reform in any meaningful way if uk did not light the blue touchpaper by remaining in - ie we set ourselves up as something of the sacrificial goat
i know fred strongly disagrees, and that is certainly a valid position, even if not shared by all on this board

of course everything is now thrown up in the air, and goodness knows what will happen next

The minister called for a closer knit eurozone with one treasury that can force economic and market reforms on to all member states



A transfer union by any other name. Germany will never allow it, and you know why.

Macron what a stupid name , i keep thinking of a cash and carry outfit when i see it .