Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

hungary currently has a pretty scary far-right gov't
don't know where poland sits in that respect


European Union announced this week that it would begin proceedings to punish ......
if that is indeed true and it may well be, the it shows how little brussels bureaucrats have listened or are even willing to hear from their members

==============

fred - not quite fair i know, but it is an indicator (rather than a true example) of exactly why i voted "out" - ie i saw it as the only way to get brussels' attention

I always found walking away from a discussion when I wanted to influence the outcome was the best way to deal with problems.

Showed "grown up responsible behaviour", or was it "that will show "em"" adolescent behaviour of those with poor arguments.

I always found walking away from a discussion when I wanted to influence the outcome was the best way to deal with problems.

Showed "grown up responsible behaviour", or was it "that will show "em"" adolescent behaviour of those with poor arguments?

that's a rubbish argument in this particular :-)

Lib Dems: 12 seats
DUP: 10 seats

Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader recently resigned the Leadership. Vince Cable, won back a seat at the Election and is 'up for it' to lead the party once again.

Let's hope he gets it. Vince has also said, that he is NOT going to be bound to follow Farron's vow NOT to do a deal with the Tories. I feel Vince might well be up for a Tory deal, particularly for a cabinet position.

Thoughts anyone?

that would certainly piss off corbyn :-)
i rate vince cable too, even though he doesn't work too well on the box

And pigs might fly.

I like Cable and majority of his views (which I know of) and think he will make a good leader of the Lib/Dems and might restore the party's following and support.

However, any "deal" with the "tories" would be the final nail in his party's coffin.

That does not mean he and his party will not support the policy votes in HP if they are agreeable to them.

But what policies do the tories have. The party is more split than in Major or Cameron's day, and the majority of the con MPS are not neofascists, but some who are trying to control the direction of the con party are.

Interesting to watch the tories tear themselves apart.


A bit like foxhunting!

and the labour party behind closed doors for a change

Fred, you bang on about being at discussions in order to influence decisions, Cameron tried and failed with his few meagre requests. There is no reasoning with Brussels you either do as they say or you get punished. Why would any country want to be part of that club.

27 other countries at the moment.

Plus a few who would wish to.

Life is give and take.

But the EU sees the UK as look, bluster, and attempt to take.

27 at the moment but for how long? You obviously have inside knowledge regarding how the EU sees the UK.

Doesn't seem likely that we will get much of a Brexit now.

Well, Well, Well!

How much has it cost so far?

Include the vanity general election and farcical referendum.

Tory Political shenanigans on the public purse to save faces. Which have failed.

Probably about £5million Plus without considering the devaluation of the pound, lost contracts and lack of R and D and future investments.

B. Crazy.

The present lot not fit to run a roadside cafe leave alone negotiations in Brussels or govern a country.

Far better to have our country run by supporters of terrorism eh! Fred

What cost a Marxist government, ask the population of Venezuela.

All going to plan eh Haystack?

In total, £39m was spent by a total of 57 parties and 23 non-party campaigners in the run-up to the 2015 election.

Elections come with plenty of of associated costs. The administrative network needed to staff thousands of polling stations and process millions of votes is vast.

In general elections or referenda, when the network needs to cover the whole country, the bill can stretch into nine figures. The 2010 General Election is thought to have cost the taxpayer £113m, while £142m was spent holding the EU referendum last June.

I think or didn't that I left out a few 000000s.

But it looks as if the tories have been caught fiddling during the last General election.

What will they do for the "cause" and excuse themselves afterwards?
https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-inside-the-secretive-tory-election-call-centre


22 JUN 2017 Politics
Revealed: Inside the secretive Tory election call centre

The Conservative Party contracted a secretive call centre during the election campaign which may have broken data protection and election laws, a Channel 4 News investigation has found.

READ AND WEEP FREDA :0)
What can the SNP teach Theresa May about minority government?
ROSS MCCAFFERTY The Scotsman 23.06.17
The wafer-thin proposals unveiled in a Queen’s Speech that is supposed to cover a two-year period show just how tough legislating is when you don’t have a House of Commons majority.

Just 24 bills were announced by Her Majesty at the State Opening of Parliament, and a sizeable chunk of those were to do with the practicalities of leaving the European Union.

Such was the paucity of the programme, the Queen was able to have a quick change and be at Royal Ascot for the first race.

Theresa May was unable to secure a deal with the controversial Democratic Unionist Party in time for the already delayed set-piece event, and so she went ahead regardless.
While the prospect of governing without a majority is a shock to the Westminster system, in Scotland we are no strangers to it.

The SNP ran Scotland without a majority (the Scottish Parliament was designed in part to prevent one) between 2007 and 2011, and are currently doing so again after the election of 2016.

Here is how Theresa May could use the Scottish example to prevent her nascent minority government from collapsing.

The numbers

The most important thing when in government without a majority is keeping on top of the fine margins involved.

As the price of the DUP gets mooted as being as high as a further £2bn in extra support for Nothern Ireland, the prospect of governing alone must be ever more tempting for Theresa May.

It is worth remembering that the DUP will, at worst, abstain on the content of the Queen’s Speech when parliament votes on it next week.

A staunchly unionist party would be unlikely to ally with Labour in any circumstances, but with Jeremy Corbyn’s controversial behaviour during the troubles, Arlene Foster’s party will never take any action that results in Mr Corbyn being given the opportunity to form a Government.

This was not dissimilar to the scenario that Alex Salmond found himself in as First Minister at the head of a minority Government.
Rejecting some SNP policies outright, and even blocking ministerial appointments or demanding resignations, could have led to the collapse of the government and an election.

That might be something Labour would relish, but the SNP and the Lib Dems would probably rather do anything else than campaign again.

With a two-thirds majority required to dissolve parliament, that almost accidental brinkmanship can aide Mrs May.
Unlikely bedfellows

The Prime Minister might not have anticipated having to throw her lot in with the DUP before the election, but it is the reality which now confronts her.

That said, the Tories were open to the notion before the 2015 election, and have relied on their support before.

It is perhaps further afield that Mrs May will find herself looking.

She may find herself with allies in the Labour party leadership for her pursuit of a Brexit which ends free movement of people.

That was the case during the SNP’s first term as a minority government, when, as Labour are fond of reminding them, they often relied on Conservative support to pass major legislation.

Annabel Goldie, then Tory leader, was able to wring concessions from the SNP government on issues such as funding for town centres.

As the SNP themselves found out, iron discipline is key if a minority government is to function, with the whips some of the hardest working MPs in the Commons.

Any dissenting opinions will need to be kept in check, all for the sake of party unity of course.
Appearance is key

One of the most important things that a minority government can do, especially in the early stages, is to ensure that the right optics are displayed.

With the SNP having just a one seat lead over Labour in 2007, there was still the possibility that a coalition involving one or more unionist parties could keep Alex Salmond out of Bute House.

But with the former SNP leader alighting from a helicopter to announce his intention to form a government, he began to look almost immediately like a First Minister-in-waiting.

Though she was criticised for doing so, Nicola Sturgeon continued to effectively brush off losing her majority in the wake of the 2016 Holyrood election.

With the departure of her two key advisers, Theresa May needs help more than ever to ensure that her nascent government isn’t mired in bad publicity.

Looking Prime Ministerial used to come easy to Mrs May, according to the conventional wisdom, but she has been increasingly rattled since losing her majority.

While Mrs May relies on Ruth Davidson for advice on all things Scotland, she could do worse than consider the example of one of the Tories’ sworn enemies in Scotland as she continues to try and govern effectively.