Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

But it looks as if the tories have been caught fiddling during the last General election.

What will they do for the "cause" and excuse themselves afterwards?
https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-inside-the-secretive-tory-election-call-centre


22 JUN 2017 Politics
Revealed: Inside the secretive Tory election call centre

The Conservative Party contracted a secretive call centre during the election campaign which may have broken data protection and election laws, a Channel 4 News investigation has found.

READ AND WEEP FREDA :0)
What can the SNP teach Theresa May about minority government?
ROSS MCCAFFERTY The Scotsman 23.06.17
The wafer-thin proposals unveiled in a Queen’s Speech that is supposed to cover a two-year period show just how tough legislating is when you don’t have a House of Commons majority.

Just 24 bills were announced by Her Majesty at the State Opening of Parliament, and a sizeable chunk of those were to do with the practicalities of leaving the European Union.

Such was the paucity of the programme, the Queen was able to have a quick change and be at Royal Ascot for the first race.

Theresa May was unable to secure a deal with the controversial Democratic Unionist Party in time for the already delayed set-piece event, and so she went ahead regardless.
While the prospect of governing without a majority is a shock to the Westminster system, in Scotland we are no strangers to it.

The SNP ran Scotland without a majority (the Scottish Parliament was designed in part to prevent one) between 2007 and 2011, and are currently doing so again after the election of 2016.

Here is how Theresa May could use the Scottish example to prevent her nascent minority government from collapsing.

The numbers

The most important thing when in government without a majority is keeping on top of the fine margins involved.

As the price of the DUP gets mooted as being as high as a further £2bn in extra support for Nothern Ireland, the prospect of governing alone must be ever more tempting for Theresa May.

It is worth remembering that the DUP will, at worst, abstain on the content of the Queen’s Speech when parliament votes on it next week.

A staunchly unionist party would be unlikely to ally with Labour in any circumstances, but with Jeremy Corbyn’s controversial behaviour during the troubles, Arlene Foster’s party will never take any action that results in Mr Corbyn being given the opportunity to form a Government.

This was not dissimilar to the scenario that Alex Salmond found himself in as First Minister at the head of a minority Government.
Rejecting some SNP policies outright, and even blocking ministerial appointments or demanding resignations, could have led to the collapse of the government and an election.

That might be something Labour would relish, but the SNP and the Lib Dems would probably rather do anything else than campaign again.

With a two-thirds majority required to dissolve parliament, that almost accidental brinkmanship can aide Mrs May.
Unlikely bedfellows

The Prime Minister might not have anticipated having to throw her lot in with the DUP before the election, but it is the reality which now confronts her.

That said, the Tories were open to the notion before the 2015 election, and have relied on their support before.

It is perhaps further afield that Mrs May will find herself looking.

She may find herself with allies in the Labour party leadership for her pursuit of a Brexit which ends free movement of people.

That was the case during the SNP’s first term as a minority government, when, as Labour are fond of reminding them, they often relied on Conservative support to pass major legislation.

Annabel Goldie, then Tory leader, was able to wring concessions from the SNP government on issues such as funding for town centres.

As the SNP themselves found out, iron discipline is key if a minority government is to function, with the whips some of the hardest working MPs in the Commons.

Any dissenting opinions will need to be kept in check, all for the sake of party unity of course.
Appearance is key

One of the most important things that a minority government can do, especially in the early stages, is to ensure that the right optics are displayed.

With the SNP having just a one seat lead over Labour in 2007, there was still the possibility that a coalition involving one or more unionist parties could keep Alex Salmond out of Bute House.

But with the former SNP leader alighting from a helicopter to announce his intention to form a government, he began to look almost immediately like a First Minister-in-waiting.

Though she was criticised for doing so, Nicola Sturgeon continued to effectively brush off losing her majority in the wake of the 2016 Holyrood election.

With the departure of her two key advisers, Theresa May needs help more than ever to ensure that her nascent government isn’t mired in bad publicity.

Looking Prime Ministerial used to come easy to Mrs May, according to the conventional wisdom, but she has been increasingly rattled since losing her majority.

While Mrs May relies on Ruth Davidson for advice on all things Scotland, she could do worse than consider the example of one of the Tories’ sworn enemies in Scotland as she continues to try and govern effectively.

Backsliding to a point where UK voted out and will still end up with the conditions that are in place pre referendum.

Just my thoughts.

Theresa May and the Holy Grail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qOyT3ZkUxI

Conservatives agree pact with DUP to support May government
9 minutes ago
From the section UK Politics These are external links and will open in a new window Share this with Facebook Share this with Twitter Share this with Messenger Share this with Email Share

The Conservatives have reached an agreement with the Democratic Unionists which will see them support Theresa May's minority government.
The deal comes after two weeks of talks between the parties since the election resulted in a hung Parliament.
The DUP's 10 MPs will back the Tories in key Commons votes, starting with the Queen's Speech later this week, but there will be no formal coalition.
The talks focused on financial support for Northern Ireland and Brexit.
The DUP has claimed the UK government has agreed to improve the treatment of military veterans in Northern Ireland as part of the agreement but played down reports that it had sought £2bn in extra funding for Northern Ireland in return for their support.
BBC Politics Live: Rolling text and video updates
Military Covenant 'part of DUP-Tory deal'
DUP MP plays down reports of £2bn deal
Mrs May shook hands with DUP leader Arlene Foster as she and other senior party figures arrived at Downing Street on Monday to finalise the pact.
Under the so-called "confidence and supply" arrangement, the DUP will line up behind the government in key votes, such as on the Queen's Speech and Budgets, which would threaten the government's survival if they were lost.
On other legislation, however, the DUP's support is not necessarily guaranteed - although the Northern Ireland party is expected to back the majority of the government's programme for the next two years after many of its more controversial policies were dropped.
Theresa May fell nine seats short of an overall majority after the snap election, meaning she is reliant on other parties to pass legislation, including relating to the terms of the UK's withdrawal from the EU.
The support of the DUP will give her an effective working majority of 13, given that Sinn Fein do not take up their seven seats and Speaker John Bercow and his three deputies - two of whom are Labour MPs - do not take part in votes.
Several senior Tories had advised her to govern without any formal agreement with the DUP, arguing the unionist party would not be prepared to bring Mrs May down and run the risk of triggering a fresh election given their longstanding hostility to Jeremy Corbyn and other senior Labour figures.
Former PM Sir John Major warned that a formal association with the DUP could undermine attempts to restore power-sharing government in Northern Ireland while some MPs said the DUP's socially conservative stance on issues such as gay marriage and abortion could damage the party in the longer term.
Labour have demanded details of how much the deal will cost UK taxpayers and what financial promises have been made.
But the Tories and DUP have said the pact will give the UK much-needed stability as it embarks on the Brexit process.

CD - i think you're probably right ....

however, i think there will be (have been) some changes to freedom of movement, and even the right of countries to deport (eu) undesirables and criminals back whence they came without referral to echr

i also think there will be the right for countries to prevent benefit and free housing shopping without that individual meeting certain residential criteria and similar

i would very much hope that we will see an end to the abuse of echr by the likes of abu hamza - eg ehcr to give guidance to sovereign judiciaries but not to take precedence

changes to the way cap and fisheries policies are implemented may (and should) also be significantly reviewed

unfortunately, and as i said several times all those months ago, any such changes would not even be considered had not uk voted "out" ........ i know fred fundamentally disagrees, and that is a perfectly legitimate argument; except that "out" won the day, albeit not overwhelmingly

It was much more overwhelming than when Blair was riding high and gave us in Wales a referendum on a Welsh assembly.

I voted no but you didn't hear the losers here moaning day in day out like the remainers.

I think the vote was 50.2% to 49.8%.

It was 50.3% to 49.7% and less than 7000 votes in it on a 50% turnout.

Bloody Sturgeon should let it drop too.

What did and still does "out" mean.

Voting for the unknown.

Jumping off a cliff hoping for a soft landing.

The referendum was not for ie. God knows what, but against what the public wished to scapegoat for their problems.

Daft.

-=-=-=-=

How many UK nationals who were overseas not allowed the vote?

-=-=-=

The present government is incompetent and I think treacherously dishonest.

Dil,

I do not think there should be any more elections.

The country voted for the bunch of misfits we have governing the UK and there should be no more rights to change policies or government goals.

The elite should choose for the rest of the country who should not be allowed to change their minds.

What is wrong with Mam's prices on stockwatch ,none of them add up anymore .

post 7079
Not a bit like Corbyn and his cronies telling the people what they want to hear, but actually plotting the opposite. Oh! and of course they support terrorism and terrorists, and encourage violence on our streets, now that is treacherous.

fred - clearly you're in one of your sillier moods today ...... last week's heat must be affecting you :-)

I refer you to post 7074.

Did you mean this one?
Theresa May and the Holy Grail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qOyT3ZkUxI

Who will suffer more after the Bexit?
the poor countries indeed, as one of the fat cows will give no milk ..........


EU could be left with �20bn gap following Brexit - Thu, 29th Jun 2017 08:24

(ShareCast News) - Brexit could lead to a �20bn deficit in the European Union's annual budget, according to the commissioner in charge of the bloc's finances.

One of the key details to be thrashed out during the ongoing negotiations between Britain and the EU is a so-called 'Brexit bill', where the former will pay a certain amount of money for relieving its obligations in the bloc.

Writing in a blog post on Wednesday, G�nther Oettinger said the financing areas such as defence and security would have to be covered by other means.

Oettinger wrote: "The departure of the United Kingdom alone leaves us with a revenue shortfall of minimum EUR 10 billion a year. At the same time we need to finance new tasks such as defence, internal security... The total gap could therefore be up to twice as much.

"Therefore, though money is not everything, we will need the financial resources to fulfill these new tasks. Or scale down our ambitions."

The UK decided to leave the EU last June in a seismic decision for both sides, with the expected departure date in March 2019.

The Commission said a rebate introduced for the UK during Margaret Thatcher's time as PM would now become obsolete, along with similar rebates given to the likes of Germany and the Netherlands.

"With the departure of the United Kingdom, the rebate that was introduced as a concession to that country in the past will become obsolete," a paper from the Commission said.

"The same is true for the rebates on the UK rebate. The other rebates will expire at the end of 2020. The elimination of rebates would open the door to substantial simplification of the revenue system."

What was the point in the EU negotiator meeting Corby , Sturgeon and Carwyn Jones ?

And Carwyn Jones still doesn't accept that Wales voted to leave !

Maybe David Davies should hold talks with Le Penn and every other anti EU party in the EU just to piss the EU off.

Dil,

I think the Brexiters, UKIP, BNP, right wing of the torrid party, and raving monster looney party could form a new party, which could be authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

Perhaps, call it the New English Fascist Party?

The name would seem representative.

Or perhaps,

The Littler England and Monmouthshire Party!

Fred

Very little point in the EU Negotiator meeting them.

I do like to read the very clear and concise views put my Jacob Rees-Mogg.

You might not like him because he is a tory, ex-Eton and also a bit of 'a toff' - but he does speak on things clearly, with excellent authority and knowledge, and so if you like that kind of thing, you actually might like him.

From the Express:

Corbyn's EU interference could WRECK Brexit deal... and save us BILLIONS - Jacob Rees-Mogg

EXCLUSIVE: Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon’s visit to Brussels yesterday was pointless as they will have no influence over Brexit negotiations, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg said.

By ALIX CULBERTSON
PUBLISHED: 04:11, Fri, Jul 14, 2017 | UPDATED: 12:07, Fri, Jul 14, 2017

The staunch Brexiteer said the Labour and SNP leaders are entitled to attempt to dip their oar into the European Union.

But suggestions they will have any influence over the final negotiations is nonsense, Mr Rees-Mogg insisted - and if they tempt Brussels into punishing the UK, then leaving the EU without a deal will benefit Britons.

Speaking exclusively to Express.co.uk, he said: “They’re entitled to, they’re opposition politicians and the job of the opposition is to oppose.

“But the negotiations will be done by the British Government, and although the result wasn’t as good as we hoped for, the Conservatives won the election.

“Mrs May is the Prime Minister, David Davis is the Brexit Secretary.

"They will be the ones doing the negotiations.

“It’s a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do but it won’t change the trend of the negotiations.”

Ms Sturgeon, the SNP leader and Scottish First Minister, was part of a remoaner mission to the Belgian capital today, joined by Mr Corbyn and Labour’s Welsh first minister Carwyn Jones.

The trio met with EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier - who previously stated he would not negotiate with Scotland behind Britain’s back.

Ms Sturgeon was expected to beg the Frenchman to help her prevent an “extreme Brexit outside the single market” during a 45-minute meeting. Independence “obsessed” Sturgeon was seen leaving after just 45 minutes, saying the meeting was "useful and constructive”.

She admitted she is going against everything Theresa May is saying and is concentrating on what is best for Scotland, not Britain as a whole.

Mr Corbyn said before the meeting he would tell the EU’s negotiator he is the prime minister in waiting and is “ready to take up the responsibility for Brexit negotiations” if Mrs May falls.

Asked whether Mr Corbyn’s meeting would prompt left-wing European parties in Brussels to put pressure on the negotiations, Mr Rees-Mogg, said: “Well, what do they seek to achieve?

“EU officials are also saying that no deal is better than a bad deal, they said this earlier this week.

“But they are in a worse position than we are on this issue, because if they get no deal we leave, we don’t have to pay the European Union any money, not at all, not a brass farthing.

“And that’s a very good, strong position to be in.

“With no deal, their budget is ruined and they don’t have our money and suddenly they’ve got to cut expenditure in some of the poorer countries, or Germany has to pay more.

“So, no deal doesn’t really suit them. So if visits from leading UK politicians make them think it would be better to just try a punishment deal for the UK, we go for no deal and then cut off their nose to spite their faces.

“We in the UK should not be frightened of no deal, but with no deal, we save a huge amount of money, at least £10billion a year, in net contributions.”

“But we’re also able to trade with the EU on the same basis we do with the rest of the world. 60 per cent of our trade is already done with the rest of the world on primarily WTO basis and so, suddenly our trading position is pretty good.

“And all the protection that is through the EU customs union, it is there to protect continental European businesses, not UK businesses so if we are out of that, that’s where the really exciting opportunity comes so we can have lower prices, particularly for goods, some services as well, particularly goods.”