Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Yes quite Dil...slightly off topic but some bad news to report I'm afraid.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40671900

Bad news you ask? well yes as it means when we do actually establish that we are "staying" in the EU it will mean a probable flood of immigrants from our Principality as they peddle over on their Bikes!

Government might be losing the Brexit spin battle, but it's triumphing on substance

By
Fraser Nelson

21 July 2017 • 6:00am


Strictly speaking, Britain is not allowed to hold trade talks with anyone until we have left the European Union. But no one in London or Washington wants to wait that long so, on Monday, talks to establish a free-trade agreement will begin.

It’s a fairly historic moment: Robert Lighthizer, the US trade representative, will meet Liam Fox to discuss what American officials describe as “ways to strengthen trade and commercial ties”. To have this happen so soon is more than any Brexiteer dared predict. Rather than be at the back of the queue, as Barack Obama had rather absurdly threatened, Britain is sneaking to the front

This fits a trend. Brazil is keen to start talks with Britain, as are Australia and Turkey. They might be bemused at the political mess in Westminster but they seek closer links to our economy, the fifth largest in the world.

We have a newly competitive currency, fuelling demand...



More behind the paywall: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/21/government-might-losing-brexit-spin-battle-triumphing-substance/

Get it right Stan , we can already get into your shitty country for free and the tolls are there to stop the bloody Wurzels invading us :-)

I'd be interested to learn the PRIMARY reason why Brexiters on this thread voted Brexit.

Was it:

1) To gain back border control and stop the tide of Eastern European immigration, and the damage it does on the UK infrastructure (housing/schools/hospitals)?

2) To stop perceived EU interference in the UK's affairs?

3) To halt the annual outflow of money to the EU?

4) To give the UK the opportunity to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world?

though not as you have worded it, but closest would be at least in part #2 followed in a lesser and different way #1

Mine was a mixture of the above with none of them overwhelmingly more important than the others but if pushed it would probably be the money we give them to squander first and second the rights given to EU immigrants the day they get here.

5) €uro Courts and all that follows from them.

Max,

Surely #5 is encompassed by #2?

Cynic,

How would you have worded it?

My wife and I didn't want our leaders to be 'told what to do' any longer by a non-democratic organisation.

We also wanted to take back control of our own laws because we knew that EU courts are controlled by unqualified and unelected beaurocrats.

We both saw a need for EU immigrants to be given jobs over here but also wanted to be able to see some sort of border control on EU immigration. EU immigrants were clogging up our social infrastructure to some extent, although we didn't feel that wa snecessarily 'their fault'. It was however, obviously getting to be too 'out of control'. We'd lost control of the numbers.

We'd lost fishing rights, trading rights with a lot of the rest of the world.

Importantly, the EU were blatantly squandering about £10bn pa of our tax payers money, right left and centre.

We also felt a bit like, "What do we really know about it all?"

And also, eg. 'Who the hell is our local MEP, anyway?'

The only MEP we ever knew was 'Nigel Farage' and he was totally critical and 'wanted out of the EU' big-time. We loved listening to his oratory and if 'coming out' was good enough for him, then it was obviously going to be good enough for us. :-)

2; 3; 1; 4, Hilary

Hils - All the above. Where have you been anyway? Miss your eloquent wit :0)

Got to say that I'm a bit surprised #1 isn't the primary reason. Every Brexiter I've spoken to in the UK has said it's 100% about immigration.

Just curious.

Summing it up!

Should leave EU at 12 midnight.

Seems to work when Beer & Petrol Duty goes up on Budget day!!!!

CC,

At the moment, I'm at home in the south of France. I may have a glass of local wine with lunch shortly - Mrs Merkel kindly uses your money to subsidise the vignerons, doncha know. :o)

Hils - Nice one :0)

There's no real problem with immigration round here hils but Blaenau Gwent voted over 60% out.

People I spoke to mentioned immigration but amongst other things. Think they were just fed up of being told how good the EU had been to this area when in fact it has lost us 100's of jobs and built us a new bloody road at 110% of the cost of building it ourselves outside the EU and not having to subsidies them.

They even got the cheek to put signs on the road saying built with EU funding when we sent them the money in the first place for them to send a smaller amount back !

Hi Hilary

If the EU is going to survive IMO they will need to take more control from Nation States to harmonise Laws, taxation and and many other aspects of life. I did not vote for that when I voted to join the EEC naively I thought it was all about free trade. I want sovereignty back so I can vote for or against the Government that makes the laws and decisions I live under.

I don't want to be living in an increasingly Federal European State.

I will vote for any party that can achieve that irrespective of their political persuasion knowing they can be kicked out at a later date if they get other aspects of policy wrong.

Ditto Martini

I like most of the immigrants I talk to and my wife and I do talk to quite a lot of them.

Most are quite hard working and have come over here to try and get a better life for themselves and their loved ones. 95% of them don't mind working hard and know and believe this is how to make their lot in life a much better one.

I particularly like the Polish ones. And 'watch out, Hilary!', because the standard of 'ladies legs' has rocketed up this last few years. In fact, 'leg quality' is how you tell whether girls are EU immigrants or not, IMHO.

"Great legs = from Eastern Europe"