Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

hilly, you are a remoaner, no doubt!

Somebody else who has trouble understanding English. What part of 'I asked a couple of questions, tried to get some sensible answers, and I'm accused of being a Remoaner' exactly was too difficult for you to understand?

What you are not fee to do, is negate it. you lost..get over it

Well, given that I exited the UK before this mess happened, I'm not the one who needs to negate it exactly, and I'm not entirely sure what it is that I'm supposed to have lost. But, for someone who 'won', how is it that your glorious leader, Maggie May, seems to be making such a fcuk up of something so simple?

Just curious, I'm sure you'll understand.

hils your post earlier about not wanting to buy a house and then have a bunch of asylum seekers move in next door .... isn't that what happens already in the UK but you can also add a bunch of free loading EU citizens / criminals into the mix too.

I knew you felt the same way as us really :-)

As for 74% of 18-24 voting in then talking to my kids mates and the youngsters at the pub that's probably about the same reaction I got but the big problem was most of those I talked to didn't bother vote.

Best guess is maybe 25% of them voted if that.

Max,

You say the "remoaners" have lost. Ummmm.

But tell me exactly what have the Brexiters won.

To vote for something, which hasn't been specified and little knowledge of possible consequences of, strikes me as close to insanity or stupidity.

The Brexiters when they voted behaved like kids being offered sweets out of a bag in the dark.

Ie. optimistic suckers.

Like going to the chemist with a headache and grabbing and swallowing the first pill they can see off the shelf and left wondering why they are spending the rest of the week S------ themselves.

-=-=-=-=-=

Dil,

The comment about the house....

I'm pretty confident that the main reason asylum seekers and other illegal immigrants go to the UK en masse is because they think they'll be given a home and benefits which they can't get elsewhere. In France you can't claim benefits of any kind, or access their healthcare system, until you've contributed into the system for 4 years. They congregate in Calais because they know they'll get something in the UK.

Martini said previously that he wanted an accountable UK government. Well you've already got an accountable UK government. Why haven't they changed the law previously to stop giving the handouts so freely? And why not build a detention centre in the Hebrides for illegals and asylum seekers (that's what happens in Australia)?

Surely, with no prospect of work, no prospect of a home and benefits, and the risk of being detained in the backend of nowhere would be a deterrent? You don't need to leave the EU for that.

Which leads me on to the eastern European part of the question...

I thought that UK border control did do criminal record checks on EU residents. And as for eastern European benefits tourism, a change in the UK law along the lines above would prevent that. What you can't do, however, is stop EU citizens going to the UK to work and pay taxes.

Dil,

Regarding the low turnout of 18-24 year olds....

I read somewhere that the turnout was thought to be 36%. The margin of 'victory' for leave over remain was 1.2m votes. Had the youngsters turned out to vote at the same levels as they did in this year's general election, and assuming the 74% figure of those voting to remain is correct, and was extrapolated, then the remain camp would have won.

Fred,

But tell me exactly what have the Brexiters won.

A 20% weaker currency, higher inflation (that outstrips earnings), and a more expensive weekly shopping basket together with more expensive holidays to countries with clean air that they don't want to visit any more. :)

Hils , Cameron tried to get a deal on immigration before the vote and look what happened. It's not just asylum seekers who fancy our benefits system but many EU citizens too who up until now we've been unable to do anything about. I've got no problem with anyone coming to this country to work but I have got a problem with us having no control over who we have to let in.

As for youngsters voting , spoke to them again before general election and 80% were brainwashed by crap they had read on social media. Nearly every single one of them thought the Tories were about to sell off the NHS but couldn't tell me who to and they also thought that if they voted Labour then uni would be free from September and past debts written off. A lot of them are still in uni or finished this summer but their level of education is shocking.

Something happened just before the election and one of my kids told me they didn't know what or who the monarchy was. To the best of my recollection here are the answers I got from 16-24 year olds.

1 said the Queen / Royal Family
4 said they didn't know or didn't care
1 said a building
2 said something to do with the government
1 said the Vatican
1 said the Pope

It was so unbelievable I then asked 10 older people and only one got it wrong and she's as thick as Diane Abbott.

Forget about lowering the voting age maybe they should raise it to 30 !

And Fred , what we were voting was clearly specified on the ballot paper .... leave the EU or stay in.

Dil,

Cameron was a waste of space.

He promised the Great British public that he would go to Brussels and get an improved deal for the UK, and, if he couldn't get an improved deal, he'd spearhead the leave campaign.

So, he watered down his wish list to the point of it not even being a list, he got nothing (and why would the EU give him anything anyway? - they didn't need to at that point in time), he came back and claimed to have got something that he hadn't, and then broke his own promise by leading a negatively oriented remain campaign.

Quite frankly, if I were selling the latest new fangled widget, I'd aim to sell it on its merits, not by knocking the competition, but that's effectively what Cameron did. He plucked a ridiculous figure out of thin air suggesting that every UK household would be worse off by £5k if the UK left the EU, and didn't talk about any of the benefits of EU membership. The Great British public saw through him and voted out.

The public aren't to blame imo - Cameron is!

But, that's a digression. What I'm saying is that if the UK were to change its own laws to prevent the handing out of benefits and healthcare to everyone (including their own citizens) until they'd contributed into the UK system for 4 or 5 years, then it would discourage asylum seekers and eastern European benefit tourism alike. That's how it works in France.

The problem is that whatever benefit rules you apply for your own people, have to be applied in equal measure to all EU citizens. So, you change your own rules. Simples, innit? :o)

In principle yes, in practice no. The socialists know that once you give something to people, it is very difficult to take away, The nasty party is their favourite line. Obummer knew that with his ACA. Doesn't matter if it is based on lies, once enacted other people will have to pick up the pieces and that always means the tax payer.

There is an easy way than penalising your own citizens hils .... just leave the EU :-)

And just remembered who the kid was who got the monarchy question right , her name was bloody Chelsea :-)

Have the Polish and the rest of the East European gone home already and left the jobs for the Brits?
unemployment is going down faster since the OUT vote ...............


UK unemployment rate at 4.4%

The UK unemployment rate was 4.4% in the three months to June 2017, down from 4.9% for a year earlier and the lowest since 1975.

There were 32.07 million people in work, 125,000 more than for January to March 2017 and 338,000 more than for a year earlier.

The employment rate was 75.1%, the highest since comparable records began in 1971.

There were 883,000 people in employment on zero-hours contracts in their main job, 20,000 fewer than for a year earlier.

There were 1.48 million unemployed people, 57,000 fewer than for January to March 2017 and 157,000 fewer than for a year earlier.

Average weekly earnings in real terms (adjusted for price inflation) fell by 0.5%, both including and excluding bonuses, compared with a year earlier.

hilary

Get out from here and stay OUT

re - The problem is that whatever benefit rules you apply for your own people, have to be applied in equal measure to all EU citizens.

Out is what what we said, is for that reason we do not want anymore, to change things to their benefit.

You are a selfish creature, and that is why you are already have, half a dozen pasports ( exagerated ) gone exile to Switzerland ( not to pay taxes here ) so ..... get out of here and stay OUT from here, though you may have a "useless" vote.

It's hardly a penalty, Dil, and leaving the EU isn't exactly proving to be a bed of roses, is it?

NI numbers are issued automatically at 15 years 9 months. So the youngest age for claiming any form of benefits payment would be 19 years 9 months. Healthcare could still be provided free by the NHS up until that age.

The problem you've got is that asylum seekers and illegals will continue trying to get into the UK after Brexit, because the grass for them will still be greener. Let's face it, this isn't a problem of 2015, 2016 or 2017 - there was a problem with the Sangatte refugee camp in Calais back in the 90's.

And given that no agreement has yet been reached in Brexit negotiations regarding freedom of movement and safeguarding of EU citizens in the UK, who's to say that you'll see a reduction of the number of eastern European immigrants either?

Chelsea sounds like a smart kid. :o)

mentor,

Are you one of the educationally sub-normal retards that Dilbert questioned in 7306? Just curious.

Or maybe you're from the geriatric brigade?

Show 'em the cold steel, Pike, they don't like it up 'em.

UP yours "hilary"

maybe "pike" do not like it but YOU do choosing this nickname

Is that a ladies name, or just a name for anyone with not much of a substance for their country

oh it means both ways ... I get it now

-------------------

Just for you

I’ve found Jesus. "hilary" was behind the sofa the whole time.
Therapy is expensive, popping bubble wrap for "hilary" is cheap!
Errors have been made. "hilary" will be blamed.
I’m not crazy, I’ve just been in a very bad mood on reading "hilary's" post
See no evil, hear no evil and date no evil like "hilary"
Sarcasm is just one more service "hilary" offers.
One of us is thinking about sex… OK, it’s not me with this "hilary" name

Macho Law forbids me from admitting I’m wrong.

hilary - surely one of the issues (bugbears) is that uk was not allowed by eu to change the rules on how immigrants could claim benefit or to vary the levels or, for that matter, to prevent extended families being brought in

perhaps the above is just popular belief and not based on fact