Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Come on you little Englanders sort it out.

'...offer the EU €20bn...'

'...give the DUP £1Bn...'

Where does she find these sums of money, that she just seems to be able to pluck out of a hat?

It's only what we are already paying them.

Probably offer it to them for some 2 or 3 year transitional agreement.

I'd rather Boris's option of just walking out and paying nothing in March 2019 but I'm not dead against chipping in for a couple more years if it helps smooth the negotiations.

We all now realise the negotiations are not only going to be tough but also how the whole thing is going to be very complicated.

And it's very, very much 'about negotiation'.

To be a good negotiator you have to know your bottom line and your ceiling and what you'll settle at, all before you start. It's a very bad idea to start telling the other side what your negotiative plan is before you begin, which is what the 'Remoaners' keep wanting to hear all about.

Davis does give me the impression he is better at it that that 'Barnier' chappy, who is just going in very hard with a ridiculous OTT stance.

Which is better to "to buy a pig in a poke" or "sell a pig in a poke"?

Certainly, May, Brexiters and cronies are trying the to do the latter.

Many of the remainers weren't puffing out their chest, making hollow claims and general tub thumping, but realised the problems of exiting.

Many of the leavers weren't puffing out their chest, making hollow claims and general tub thumping, but realised the problems of exiting.

Some see the "European Union " like a

- -

and want to ... ... before it happens

George,

Irony George, Irony!

Fred you will have to excuse George as he's still getting over the visit of Jeremy Corbyn to his County the other week 😀

What county is that Stan?

Hinge and Bracket still attacking anyone who dare question their views ,typical stupid lefties .

Well spotted George, I do like to slip in the occasional deliberate spelling mistake just to see if your awake, now back to JC.. did you get his autograph?

I only ask as you have mentioned in the past that you don't always vote for the Con artist Tories?

You're awake Stan - and your supreme leader is Corbyn, not Corbin. Keep it up lad and there will be a position in the shadow cabinet for you.

Not making ridiculous claims ??? You've got a short memory Fred.

Cameron and Osbourne etc were making claims about emergency budgets being needed , unemployment going through the roof , stock market crash , house prices tumbling and WW3. All of which would happen within weeks of an exit vote.

At least Cammy and Osbourne had the decency to resign unlike Carney and many others who got it so wrong.

Dil,

Are you suggesting the tories are a lying or just confused bunch of incompetents?

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I have often been in the minority about decisions affecting future events, and generally reconsidered my actions, but if the majority against me was 27 to 1, I would be hesitant and question what the 27 were foreseeing and I didn't.

You may be right in your optimism, but I have doubts.

I'm sure everyone on the Brexit side has doubts too it's just the alternative to leaving became unacceptable to the majority.

Common market amongst fairly similar economies of Western Europe was a good idea ... went downhill after that.

A very special mention to IT for his (if late) observation as well.. George to learn here.

Have no fear I'm sure Jezzer has you both in his thoughts.

What the other 27 foresee is:- hell we are going to lose our benefactor, we will all have to pay more to make up the shortfall

The best case scenario has got to be a total break up of the EU, and a partial reformation consisting just the current top 10 or 12 players selected by highest GDP per capita. That would eliminate Greece and the other basket cases.

The only way that will ever happen, however, is if the good folks of Germany, France, Netherlands successfully press their respective governments for in/out referenda of their own. Somehow, I can't see that being on the table for the foreseeable future, and one of the reasons Barnier is appearing to be awkward is that the EU can't afford to give the Brits a good deal, as some of the other member states will see what's happened and start thinking about their own referendum.

Seriously, the UK should just cut their losses and walk away now imo, set up their trade deals with the US, etc, and push the EU relationship on to the back burner until after the new partnerships have been sorted out. Give Barnier and Juncker a dose of squeeky bums. I'm pretty sure that's what Game Theory would say to do.