Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Many of the leavers weren't puffing out their chest, making hollow claims and general tub thumping, but realised the problems of exiting.

Some see the "European Union " like a

- -

and want to ... ... before it happens

George,

Irony George, Irony!

Fred you will have to excuse George as he's still getting over the visit of Jeremy Corbyn to his County the other week 😀

What county is that Stan?

Hinge and Bracket still attacking anyone who dare question their views ,typical stupid lefties .

Well spotted George, I do like to slip in the occasional deliberate spelling mistake just to see if your awake, now back to JC.. did you get his autograph?

I only ask as you have mentioned in the past that you don't always vote for the Con artist Tories?

You're awake Stan - and your supreme leader is Corbyn, not Corbin. Keep it up lad and there will be a position in the shadow cabinet for you.

Not making ridiculous claims ??? You've got a short memory Fred.

Cameron and Osbourne etc were making claims about emergency budgets being needed , unemployment going through the roof , stock market crash , house prices tumbling and WW3. All of which would happen within weeks of an exit vote.

At least Cammy and Osbourne had the decency to resign unlike Carney and many others who got it so wrong.

Dil,

Are you suggesting the tories are a lying or just confused bunch of incompetents?

--==--=-=--=

I have often been in the minority about decisions affecting future events, and generally reconsidered my actions, but if the majority against me was 27 to 1, I would be hesitant and question what the 27 were foreseeing and I didn't.

You may be right in your optimism, but I have doubts.

I'm sure everyone on the Brexit side has doubts too it's just the alternative to leaving became unacceptable to the majority.

Common market amongst fairly similar economies of Western Europe was a good idea ... went downhill after that.

A very special mention to IT for his (if late) observation as well.. George to learn here.

Have no fear I'm sure Jezzer has you both in his thoughts.

What the other 27 foresee is:- hell we are going to lose our benefactor, we will all have to pay more to make up the shortfall

The best case scenario has got to be a total break up of the EU, and a partial reformation consisting just the current top 10 or 12 players selected by highest GDP per capita. That would eliminate Greece and the other basket cases.

The only way that will ever happen, however, is if the good folks of Germany, France, Netherlands successfully press their respective governments for in/out referenda of their own. Somehow, I can't see that being on the table for the foreseeable future, and one of the reasons Barnier is appearing to be awkward is that the EU can't afford to give the Brits a good deal, as some of the other member states will see what's happened and start thinking about their own referendum.

Seriously, the UK should just cut their losses and walk away now imo, set up their trade deals with the US, etc, and push the EU relationship on to the back burner until after the new partnerships have been sorted out. Give Barnier and Juncker a dose of squeeky bums. I'm pretty sure that's what Game Theory would say to do.

GEORGE

that is right

I said much the same some time back, but more to the ones they put extra into its coffers, as there are plenty of the takers.

We are still a main contributor, so the rest will suffer once out.

No wonder they want billions as a divorse settlement, to pluck the BLACK hole in the future

I'd draw a line for the reformed EU under the Czech Republic, although I'd also include Portugal within the list for geographical reasons.

Hiliary,

I would prefer neighbours who are ruled by the same laws and regulations as I am.

Also, one of the reasons that the rich live in their "enclaves" is because it is thought to be safer than having "poorer" envious neighbour who "hunt in the dark".

Another problem is that human nature makes "dealings" by those who are seen to have welched on deals and "undertakings" less attractive. Those who have welched find the costs higher due to distrust. It is better to trade with those who have similar standards, laws and regulations.

Never trust a little englander (freeloaders) is already on the lips of some in Europe.

oi

Never trust " Freda " and the rubish free speech I would say... but

Fred,

I totally understand that it's great to have nice neighbours. I'm sure South Korea would like to feel that way, and let's not forget that some EU members neighbour Russia, so it does make sense to have them on the right side rather than the wrong side.

However, you can be a good neighbour without getting into bed with them, and without lending them money. It's also nice, when you invite your neighbours over for a party, that they don't turn up with uninvited guests of their own, don't trash the joint, don't outstay their welcome, and return the favour by inviting you over to theirs for another party.

For the record, I'm not suggesting that the UK welch on any of its legal commitments, and, regarding freeloading, the French have always griped about the UK EU rebates whilst, simultaneously, taking the largest farming subsidy of all member states. Ironically, my local wine co-operative down here has a plaque above the door saying precisely how much it's received under CAP. Their rather palatable AOC rouge sells from a petrol pump at 1 € 80 / litre, so long may those subsidies continue. :o)

I'm just saying that a three-player game where the UK gets to play with both the other players, and the other two players don't play against each other can be modelled to weigh in the UK's favour. At the moment, Brexit is being played out as a two-player zero-sum game (ie. one player wins, the other player loses), which isn't good.