This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Good question, MM.
I admire an attitude that all things are possible, given effort and hard work.
I admire some of the natural wonders of that vast continent.
I admire the ability to provide a swift and responsive service to customer needs.
I hate the superiority complex that comes with it.
I hate the ridiculous political correctness that has radiated from its shores.
I hate its treatment of the Cuban people.
I feel I am fairly balanced, though these lists are not exhaustive or inclusive.
Alan

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I think we should all thank Fred for starting this thread -- it's livened things up around here.

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He has gone into hiding!!

The worlds problems could be solved overnight.

A nice big nuclear warhead sent over to the Middle east thus wiping out Iran,Iraq,Syria,Israel etc etc.

The world would then be a much safer place.

Finally I would also nuke Wales where that scrote Dil resides.

Lets admit defeat then , we Brits and Yanks are dreadful people aren`t we?, yep Let`s put Hussein back in power, give back The Maldives to Argentinia,Yugoslavia to the Generals, put the Iron Curtain back up again, bring back Apartheid , reinstate Idi Amin, dig up Hitler, and put him back in power , ditto the Kaiser.
Let the new Iraq reinvade Kuwait, Iran, and probably Turkey.

In fact lets leave all the lefty prats to fight , and we Brits and Yanks will close our borders, turf out those who don`t want to stay , and go back to a pleasant lifestyle like before the loonies moved in.
Odd how nearly all the protesters come from within the M25 ghetto- the richest area in the UK- boredom I guess.

Get real, get real lives and - oh real jobs too

hopeless.

ps

anybody burning gas /petrol/fuel with blood on it tonight from petroleum inspired wars shoul be tried as an accessory to those wars,hypocricy- thy name is loony left liberalism!!!

geddoutahere- and turn off the 4WD in the suburban drive, - oh and the wifes` Morris Minor ( so coooel on fuuelll) , THE OIL-FIRED tv/dvd/ipod ,central heating - in fact curl up and die of cold.
Why do you think we are so rich? Since WW1 we have gone to war with ANYONE who threatened out trade, Japan threatened the Far East Oil, if you don`t like it here move on, China needs lefties who keep their gobs shut- try it there.
Don`t shout "Down with the death penalty though" , and don`tcarry 500 splifs, that would be undemocratic- oh and fatal.
You have never had it so good in this country, that is why billions want to come here.

I doubt if many of the general public who feel so free to comment on the morality of 'oil wars' realise just how dependent they actually are on oil and its by-products. To many people it's all about big oil money.

Never mind heating, motor transport, jet propulsion, power generation and so on.

No plastics. That means no silicon chips. No plastic casings (all electronic goods, such as mobile phones, DVD players, TV sets, DVDs, CDs).

Civilisation as we know it -- industry driven by consumerism -- would stop.

Maybe our leaders are lining their own pockets -- how would I know? What I do know is that I don't want the oil turned off.

Otherwise -- see you back in the cave.

Life After the Oil Crash

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Scary even if only slightly accurate.....

Blinger,

Your a raving loony.

Blinger, you dont seem to have study world history the situations you are quoting such as Sadam, Apartied etc were only possible because of the US, UK and other western powers supporting these scum bags they were armed to the teeth by the UK and the US, the UK and the US are the 2 biggest arms exporters in the world, because it suited them at the time, the UKs record on human rights under its empire was horrific and the US as well. What are the facts and what is your motive and then you might get somewhere near the truth

Blinger
Good points, and judging from the frenzed retorts well made I think, as to the rest
welcome to the real world
loadsa

davea3: Another calumny. The British Empire's record on human rights was not "horrific". That is latter-day revisionism. Read "Empire" by Niall Ferguson for a more balanced historical picture that that which was clearly stuffed down your throat at school.

Loads - You need go back and read it again, the only frenzied comments have come from blinger.

Hmmm. Seems to me that bringing up the old "What a bunch of bastards we were when we had an empire" argument is very likely to lead to a thread better entitled "What have the Romans ever done for us........"
Alan

mm - yes we have a brilliant record in India.

India -- ah, the world's biggest democracy. Made a mess of that, didn't we?

Kivver,
I wish I had cut out and kept a series of letters published in The Gulf Times around August 2001 (I think).
They started with a letter from an ex-pat Englishman lambasting the state of India and Pakistan and putting the blame squarely on The British Empire and what we did.
He suggested the UK should compensate the Indians and Pakistanis for the problems we caused.
This was replied to by a series of Indians along the lines of;
"yeah. You should give us decent infrastructure. Sorry, you built the railroads and highways. Or perhaps healthcare. Oh no, forgot, you created and funded an NHS. What about free education. Ah, you organised that too. And built the finest universities in the asian world. How about democracy. Oh. That was another thing you gave us. Well our army. Sorry, forget I said that. You created and armed that too.
Justice. That is som......... No. My mistake. We have a legal system and trial by jury that you instigated. How about a police force for local security? That was your idea too?

The letters went on for some time and could probably be echoed around the world. The point is, it was rare that we withdrew and left the country worse off than it had been. Usually quite the reverse.
Alan

Just another small point on this (to stir it up a bit).
Which was the better place to live (for all peoples); Rhodesia under Robert Smith or Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe?

We seemed to have concentrated on only one of the questions posed.

I still would like to read views on rendition and whether as the result of the invasion of Iraq we are safer from terrorism or in greater peril.

Is Iraq a training ground for other places ie America, Britain etc at a later date.

Will the middle East inflate oil prices over the coming years in an attempt to disrupt the World Economies.


Was the invasion of Afghanistan a success and is the placement of British troops there in the aftermath of the American policy a good idea.

I would like to write I have nothing against the American people, the
French, Spanish or even the English people and through my travels (fairly limited compared with many on this board) found the values in general to be similar.

However, I do have antagonism to many acts of the administration of those countries which are done in the name of their people.

Alan - i dont claim too know much about India or our history there as part of the BE. I just know our human rights issues left a lot to be desired. For examle you say we helped build Railways, how was this done???

On a seperate point, its a pleasure to debate with you because we disagree on most points on this thread apart from the US, but we have not resorted insults and have tried to justify what we believe with reasonable argument. Its would be nice if some of the others could do the same. apart from fred of course.