Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Manuel.

Stop wetting yourself.

Martini - 29 Sep 2017 20:57 - 7651 of 7658

Informed ... and what might that be Stan?

Don't ask silly questions Martini.

Stan

Humour me and explain please.

Martini,

Opposite to what the tory confusion party is offering.

The only thing the Cons seem interested in at the present time is saving their own a____.


Not unusual and should relabel itself as the party of self-interest.

My word standing up for Corbyn is obscene , the man who lied through his socks and made up promises trying to get elected . Anyway where's your EU heroes responding to the violence in Spain Freda , I thought it was a democratic country Spain , but not a recognised word in the EU wilderness .

So what does the opposite look like Fred. I am keen to learn.

Albania.

I would say Venezuela, below is an extract from a letter to the American media:-

Venezuela has descended into complete and utter chaos as a result of a brutal, socialist government whose citizens are starving under its tightening grip every day.

Make no mistake, this is a humanitarian disaster and socialist policies are to blame. Venezuela's experiment in Marxism began in 1999. With each passing year, what was once one of the most prosperous countries in Latin America became poorer and poorer. What was once a free country, became repressive. Those who tried to reform the failing policies of the ruling United Socialist Party of Venezuela were brutally repressed, imprisoned and even murdered.

Venezuela's current President Nicolás Maduro and his predecessor, Hugo Chávez follow a long list of brutal dictators including Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong and Fidel Castro who are responsible for more than 100 million deaths. Venezuela is now closer to communism than ever. Communism has been tried in more than 40 countries, and each time results in the worst and widest scale human rights abuses known to man.

We, the undersigned, will not tolerate the obfuscating or whitewashing of the crimes of the socialist regime in Venezuela and the actions of their communist ally, Castro's Cuba which now reportedly has thousands of military advisors participating in the violent treatment and murder of unarmed protestors.

Vicky,

I thought you object to EU interference in the legislation of individual states.


But Mariano Rajoy seems as inept as Theresa Maybe and fellow cohorts.

Is he a relation of yours?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Martini.


You are a clever chap, spend a little time and read some sensible papers.


Try listening to http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b096gjjh


Power, the people and the Party

Interesting discussion.

Though it may be a bit adult for you.

Don't think I mentioned interference , but you always look for easy way out .

Vicky.

While you will settle for a pig in a poke or for a poke.

Rather have a beefburger actually .

Sums up some problems!

Catalan referendum shame for EU

Much clear can not be in Spain, though a democrazy is still run by the Facist, from Politics to Sport, another note is PM (M. Rajoy ) is from Galicia the same place as Franco.

Catalan independence referendum: Massive majority votes 'Yes' 90% , regional government says

Catalonia is a wealthy region within Spain with its own language and culture. Should the vote take place, a “yes” vote is likely, given that most of the 40 percent of Catalans who polls show support independence are expected to cast ballots while most of those against it are not.

Hundreds gathered in the centre of Spanish capital Madrid national Spanish flags. They chanted ”Spanish unity” and “Don’t fool us – Catalonia is Spain”. Many balconies in the capital are draped with the red and yellow Spanish flag.

Some sang the Spanish fascist anthem ‘Facing the Sun’, a hymn often played during the dictatorship of Francisco Franco.


The pigs are hungry, throw Rajoy to the "stay"

Fred
Yes i listened to that as i do with Radio 4 most of the day. I also take The Mail, The Sunday Times. The Guardian, The Observer and various other hard copy publications.

What i was interested in was your vision and Stan's on what was meant by an Informed Brexit.

O and by the way why do you need to attempt to insult me by the " Though it may be a bit adult for you" comment?

I was hoping you might articulate it yourselves rather than using others words or cartoons.

As I have said humour me please.

He's belittling you Martini , he sees himself far superior to most .

With all due respect to them, the citizens of a particular area of just one part of Spain, cannot just tell the rest of the citizens of Spain to 'get stuffed' without doing a proper deal with all the rest of those Spanish citizens.

In other words a FULL country vote was required. Thus this 'partial, limited only to the citizens of Catalonia, referendum' was utterly flawed and its result would be counted for nothing.

This was not the way to go about things and no wonder the whole Catalonia referendum thing' has been a confusing disaster.

Not withstanding all of that, the Spanish Government must be crazy to use such 'fascist tactics' to stop the referendum from happening and squash what they deemed to be a 'criminal revolt'.

And where are the EU with some proper comment on things?

In the USA, it would seem to me, that it is soon going to be much more difficult to buy, what is going to become a relatively cheap item.

Namely......a 'fully automatic assault rifle'.

This being an item of gun hardware, that any, say white male 64 yr old, who just happens to feel extremely pissed-off with everything and everybody, can tool himself up with and then go out and use to just let loose and kill around 50 people and maybe put around 400 others in hospital.

Cornwall is my favourite to have independence referendum here.

Martini,

With your intellect and newspaper coverage, you could be able enough to view necessary information and other opinions other than your own, or mine.

The next step is to be prepared to think, open your mind and consider appropriately.

Questions are easy to ask but to give adequately argued answers would take more of my time and effort than I think I wish to.

But thank you for the interest shown, I think humouring yourself would be appropriate.