Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Hils , less than 50% of those eligible to vote in Wales voted for a Welsh Assembley.

The vote for Brexit was by less than 50% of those elegible to vote.

Were those referendums legal, Dil? And with binding results?

Legal or not it doesn't change the fact that the percentage of those who voted for independence in Catalonia can't be that far short of those who voted for it in Wales and many supporters of it were stopped from voting.

Just pointing out that it was no small minority who voted in favour.

With regards to Brexit, the binding results question is what we are all still asking. Many on the other side of the issue like to preface their argument with "the people that voted out didn't vote for ... fill in the blanks. Fantasizing nincompoops.
Leaving after so many years is not straightforward - with the EU it is like getting involved in a street brawl - but it shouldn't be as difficult as this Government is making it.

As Nike say ... just do it.

"but it shouldn't be as difficult as this Government is making it."

Is that attempting to negate what is?

? wishful thinking of children.

You mean those children who lost the vote Fred and still think the UK is going to stay in the EU ?

Dream on , more chance of Cardiff City being in Europe than the UK come March 2019.

No Dil.

Those who did not foresee the difficulties of renegading from the EU and agreed commitments appear to me lacking awareness of the difficulties and the possible or probable responses to future "dealings" with members of the EU.

Also, pumping out one's chest and shouting the "odds" does not improve the deals you are likely to get or efficiency in negotiating them.

But it is likely to increase reticence in trusting in future dealings with the UK. Companies etc. will prefer deals with companies within the EU rather than a dog barking on the outside of its Rules and Regulations.

"Farewell friends" comes to mind in both meanings of the expression.

But that barking dog imports (from the EU) far more than it exports to it.

edited by MoneyAM

2517,

Check the % of "trades" with individual country's economies.

UK is less important to the "individual states of the EU" than the EU State to the UK.

Fred, exports account for 44% of EU GDP against 28% for the UK. You only have to look at the motor industry to see how important the UK is to the EU

Dil,

You may well be right. If it is 36% who want independence, then there'd need to be a turnout in the event of a legal referendum of probably 75% or more for the remain camp to win on that basis. That could be touch and go.

However, when you have an illegal referendum, the only people who actually get out of bed and turn out to vote are those who want something out of the process. To everybody else, it's just a pointless excercise.

Mental RSI,

You've already been banned once, and you seem to be going the right way towards being banned again. For the record, Mental is just one of several names I have for you. Moronic and Deranged are a couple of the others.

edited by MoneyAM

25,

44%/27

28%/1

Here you go Fred, this little graph tells you all you need to know:



https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

Catalans Challenge Spanish Authority With Large General Strike

Catalonia's nationalists mounted a fresh challenge to Spanish authority over the region with a general strike Tuesday that paralysed Barcelona and several motorways, but stayed peaceful.

The protest was called after Catalan authorities accused police of injuring 893 people, including four taken to hospital, as they attempted to suppress Sunday's unauthorized independence referendum, seizing election materials from schools and other public buildings....

humiliation
.......... However, the climate is getting nastier for Spanish police officers. An extra 10,000 were deployed in Catalonia ahead of the referendum, but after Sunday's clashes, many of them face open hostility from the local population.

Starting Monday, hundreds of officers were evicted from their hotels, after crowds assembled outside. "We do not want hotels in Callella to turn into barracks," said the mayor of Calella, one of the cities where confrontations took place, Montserrat Candini.

Lets do it if there no take an give .........

Britain is ready to walk away with no deal on Brexit, Davis says

MANCHESTER, England, Oct 3 (Reuters) - Britain wants to negotiate a Brexit agreement with the European Union, but is ready to walk away with no deal, Brexit minister David Davis said on Tuesday, warning that any error in the talks could cost them billions of pounds.

At the annual conference of the Conservative Party, Davis told members the government did not want to fail in the talks to unravel more than 40 years of union, but officials were "contingency planning" to make sure all scenarios were covered.

British Prime Minister Theresa May has tried to unblock the talks with EU leaders, after they stalled over disagreements on the final divorce bill, by making concessions on the role of the European court and the financial settlement.

But earlier on Tuesday, the European Parliament passed a non-binding motion calling on EU leaders to conclude at a summit on Oct. 19-20 that Brexit talks had not made sufficient progress to justify opening trade negotiations with Britain.

"On the negotiating front, we are aiming for a good deal. And that is what we expect to achieve. However, if the outcome of the negotiation falls short of the deal that Britain needs we will be ready for the alternative," Davis said.

"That is what a responsible government does. Anything else would be a dereliction of duty."

Davis, who said Britain was nearing agreement with the EU on citizens rights - one of three issues to be settled in the first round of negotiations, criticised the main opposition Labour Party for having an unclear position on Brexit

"This is the most complex negotiation you could imagine, where one oversight, one error could cost the taxpayer billions of pounds," he said.

Johnson is now on and getting some applause

Right Mark1, Put those figures as %sof individual GDPs.