Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

The problem of identifying victims, she added, was being complicated by the fact that “a lot of people were irregular in their tenancies and some were subletting. Some of them were illegal subtenancies.” Those who perished may not be those recorded as the official tenants of a flat.

this the problem facing the council who was in the flats ,

You're jumping ahead of yourself Stan when you talk about prosecutions, at least as far as the councils are concerned. It is now found that the cladding has been in widespread use, including on recently built hotels. The problem appears to be with the testing and approval of the cladding, not the councils that were paying to have it installed in the belief that it would improve the appearance and insulation of the flats.
The tenancies are another matter. If the councils now visit all the other flats in their areas to register who exactly is living in them, they will no doubt be called fascists for harrassing the poor and another day of rage will be called.
Personally, I am enraged by the unrestricted immigration from outside the EU that the labour government inflicted upon us. Including the gross stupidity of stopping border checks on people leaving the country when it was clear that passports were being taken out of the country for others to use on re-entry.

14 Jun 2017 - She said that her neighbour woke her and others up after packing ... 'The fire started in the flat next door to mine on the fourth floor,' she said.

"his neighbour told him the fire started in his flat after his fridge exploded."

Deadly London tower blaze began in Hotpoint fridge freezer - police - Fri, 23rd Jun 2017 11:21

LONDON, June 23 (Reuters) - A fire that engulfed a London tower block killing at least 79 people started in a Hotpoint fridge freezer and cladding on the building failed all safety tests, London police said on Friday.

Police Detective Superintendent Fiona McCormack said the Hotpoint model, FF175BP, was not subject to recall and that the manufacturer was doing further tests.

"We now have expert evidence that the fire was not started deliberately," McCormack said.

Police said both the insulation and tiles used in cladding at the 24-storey Grenfell Tower block failed all post-fire safety tests.

"Preliminary tests show the insulation samples collected from Grenfell tower combusted soon after the test started," McCormack said.

Such were their concerns after the tests that the information was immediately shared with government to disseminate more widely.

"Given the deaths of so many people we are considering manslaughter as well as criminal offences and breaches of legislation and regulations," McCormack said.

The blaze, Britain's worst since World War Two, has heaped pressure on Prime Minister Theresa May, already fighting for her political survival after her party lost its parliamentary majority in a snap election on June 8.

When speaking about the 79 people dead, presumed dead or missing, McCormack said: "I fear that there are more."

"Personally, I am enraged by the unrestricted immigration from outside the EU that the labour government inflicted upon us. Including the gross stupidity of stopping border checks on people leaving the country when it was clear that passports were being taken out of the country for others to use on re-entry. "


T Maybe has been in "power" or "strong and stable" government for 6 years promising that she would solve the problem of "immigration".

Looking at the charts she doesn't seem to be that "successful" other than using the figures of political advantage and scapegoating the failures of her governing body.



Phillip Hammond doesn't seem that enthusiastic about lowering the level.


Uk Debt doesn't seem that clever either.


Also, there seems to be a flight of financial services.


The present group of tory elite has been in power for 6 years and doesn't seem that successful.

Perhaps, it should accept responsibility for its own failures rather than blaming its predecessors.

YAAAAWWWWNNN!!! Same old, same old. Five more years and then some, deal with it.

are all councils now going to find out who lives in these flats and take action for those breaking the law by sub letting or taking in illegal immigrants or even family
the police need to be able to no who is in these flats .
it is going to cost a lot of time trying to find out who was in those flats ,

action by all uk councils must act now

I had to smile reading about the schoolboys, whose headmistress said they could not wear shorts, even though it was so very hot. She said they had to stick with their long trousers even though the stuff the girls were wearing was much more 'heat friendly' in comparison.

And so what was the result of that ruling?

This:



Well done lads! Rebels do usually succeed in life because they often find a way through and find innovative solutions to defeat the problem.

Keep up the rebellion!

Pupil power.

Congratulation to the organisers.

-=-=-=-=-=

If the headmistress has a sense of humour she could make it compulsory summer wear.

Just an afterthought.


Which one is Vicky and which one is Dumbo?

Islamophobia is now breaking out here and there.

Women are tearing other women's 'niq's' off.

Hmmm?

Anyhow, check out: Women brawl in shopping centre as one woman tears of the other's niq'

Poll result | Attitudes to Brexit vote one year on


Thinking about the result of the EU referendum, which of the following best reflects your view?


Hard Leavers45%

Re-Leavers23%

Hard Remainers22%



Hard Leavers – voted Leave and believe government should follow will of the people

Re-Leavers – voted Remain but believe government should follow will of people

Hard Remainers – voted Remain and believe government should ignore will of the people



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/22/brexit-deal-3-million-eu-citizens-allowed-stay-uk-permanently/

IF YOU WANT TO SEE REAL FACTS ON SADIQ KHAN WATCH THE VIDEO ON YOUTUBE

THEN POST , ITS AN EYE OPENNER .

"iturama - 23 Jun 2017 10:10 - 78112 of 78122

You're jumping ahead of yourself Stan when you talk about prosecutions, at least as far as the councils are concerned. It is now found that the cladding has been in widespread use, including on recently built hotels. The problem appears to be with the testing and approval of the cladding, not the councils that were paying to have it installed in the belief that it would improve the appearance and insulation of the flats.
The tenancies are another matter. If the councils now visit all the other flats in their areas to register who exactly is living in them, they will no doubt be called fascists for harrassing the poor and another day of rage will be called.
Personally, I am enraged by the unrestricted immigration from outside the EU that the labour government inflicted upon us. Including the gross stupidity of stopping border checks on people leaving the country when it was clear that passports were being taken out of the country for others to use on re-entry."


The Metropolitan Police says it will consider manslaughter, health and safety and fire safety charges.

It seems the Met. Police agree with me Iturama.

It says it will consider charges Stan. But nothing about about who may be subject to the charges. You have to have knowledge or be reasonably expected to have knowledge of a defect to be culpable. I doubt those hotels chains that paid to have this type of cladding installed have homicidal intentions against their guests. Persons in the manufacturing or procurement chain possibly knew but that requires a full investigation.

Fred i dont spend much time looking at boys in skirts ,if thats what you like you should go to Thailand i would imagine your that seedy type .

Beside the point IT, the fact that they are considering prosecutions is important in itself.

JJ like George on here.. when in a hole stop digging.

It,

"In explaining to juries the test which they should apply to determine whether the negligence, in the particular case, amounted or did not amount to a crime, judges have used many epithets, such as ‘culpable’, ‘criminal’, ‘gross’, ‘wicked’, ‘clear’, ‘complete’. But, whatever epithet be used and whether an epithet be used or not, in order to establish criminal liability the facts must be such that, in the opinion of the jury, the negligence of the accused went beyond a mere matter of compensation between subjects and showed such disregard for the life and safety of others as to amount to a crime against the State and conduct deserving punishment."


My "feeling" is that before a court the above would apply.

(Ignorance, when one has responsibility is not a good argument.)

Dumbo,

Are you talking from experience?

I posted this on the day of the disaster...Just as relevant now as it was then.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The warnings that were repeatedly flagged up but ignored about the flats that caught fire today

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-
fire/

KCTMO – Playing with fire!


Posted on November 20, 2016 by grenfellactiongroup
fire

It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders. We believe that the KCTMO are an evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia who have no business to be charged with the responsibility of looking after the every day management of large scale social housing estates and that their sordid collusion with the RBKC Council is a recipe for a future major disaster.

Unfortunately, the Grenfell Action Group have reached the conclusion that only an incident that results in serious loss of life of KCTMO residents will allow the external scrutiny to occur that will shine a light on the practices that characterise the malign governance of this non-functioning organisation. We believe that the KCTMO have ensured their ongoing survival by the use of proxy votes at their Annual General Meeting that see them returned with a mandate of 98% in favour of the continuation of their inept and highly dangerous management of our homes. It is no coincidence that the 98% is the same figure that is returned by the infamous Kim Jong-un of North Korea who claims mass popularity while reputedly enslaving the general population and starving the majority of his people to death.

It is our conviction that a serious fire in a tower block or similar high density residential property is the most likely reason that those who wield power at the KCTMO will be found out and brought to justice! The Grenfell Action Group believe that the KCTMO narrowly averted a major fire disaster at Grenfell Tower in 2013 when residents experienced a period of terrifying power surges that were subsequently found to have been caused by faulty wiring. We believe that our attempts to highlight the seriousness of this event were covered up by the KCTMO with the help of the RBKC Scrutiny Committee who refused to investigate the legitimate concerns of tenants and leaseholders.

We have blogged many times on the subject of fire safety at Grenfell Tower and we believe that these investigations will become part of damning evidence of the poor safety record of the KCTMO should a fire affect any other of their properties and cause the loss of life that we are predicting:

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/fire-safety-scandal-at-lancaster-west/

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/more-on-fire-safety/

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/another-fire-safety-scandal/

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/grenfell-tower-still-a-fire-risk/

In October 2015 a fire ripped through another KCTMO property, the 14 storey Adair Tower in North Kensington, causing mass panic and resulting in a number of residents taken to hospital suffering from smoke inhalation. It is reported that had it not been for the swift actions of the London Fire Brigade the consequences of this fire and potential loss of life could have been much worse.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11967592/50-rescued-from-burning-flats-in-Kensington.html

In the aftermath of the Adair Tower fire the London Fire Brigade found that the KCTMO had not been looking after the safety of residents properly and issued an Enforcement Order compelling them to improve the fire safety in the escape staircases and to provide self closing devices to all the tower block’s front doors. A further audit by the London Fire Brigade of the neighbouring Hazelwood Tower (located alongside Adair Tower) found similar breaches of health and safety legislation and an Enforcement Order was also issued for this property forcing the TMO to address the serious concerns of the Fire Brigade’s inspectors. What is shocking is that a decade ago a fatality occurred due to a fire at Hazelwood Tower and the Fire Investigation Team ordered that the grills on the fire escape staircase be covered over. This never happened and it is believed that the uncovered grills at Adair House (Hazelwood Tower’s twin block) acted like a chimney and were responsible for the accelerated spread of the fire and smoke damage.

In the last twenty years and despite the terrifying power surge incident in 2013 and recent fire at Adair Tower, the residents of Grenfell Tower have received no proper fire safety instructions from the KCTMO. Residents were informed by a temporary notice stuck in the lift and one announcement in a recent regeneration newsletter that they should remain in their flats in the event of fire. There are not and never have been any instructions posted in the Grenfell Tower noticeboard or on individual floor as to how residents should act in event of a fire. Anyone who witnessed the recent tower block fire at Shepherds Court, in nearby Shepherd’s Bush, will know that the advice to remain in our properties would have led to certain fatalities and we are calling on our landlord to re-consider the advice that they have so badly circulated.

The Grenfell Action Group predict that it won’t be long before the words of this blog come back to haunt the KCTMO management and we will do everything in our power to ensure that those in authority know how long and how appallingly our landlord has ignored their responsibility to ensure the heath and safety of their tenants and leaseholders. They can’t say that they haven’t been warned!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'You're jumping ahead of yourself Stan when you talk about prosecutions, at least as far as the councils are concerned.'

iturama...Now tell me I'm jumping ahead of myself.