Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

you may well be right, and it was really just a pebble that i threw into the pond

however, if i have read correctly, catalonia creates a disproportionate amount of spanish gdp
that said, the catalans can jump and down as much as they like, and though that may cause much unrest and wreck a good section of the tourist trade on which so much of spain depends (including catalonia), independence will remain a pipe dream - just as it has for the basques

why on earth the spanish gov't reacted with such brutal police force is beyond belief ..... imagine such a thing in uk - or even switzerland :-)

"independence will remain a pipe dream - just as it has for the basques"

Churchill said similar about India.

And look what happened..

A day in the life of a tory,



Theresa move over, Boris wants the stool!

To secede from Spain would require probably an impossible job as to organising total separation of power supply....army....police....independent hospitals....basically : a new born country would have to be created !....it just can't happen overnight and would probably end if the catalan government decided as such should go ahead with occupation (Franco style) of Catalonia by force by loyal Spanish troops...make no mistake of that not happening...it would be a dark day for Spanish democracy as the francists are not dead : they are just lurking in the shadows....

How much is it to Party Central Office?



How much is Party Central Office?

Good to hear that walking away from negotiations is still on the table , Barnier and EU might finally wake up and smell the coffee.

And if they don't like our proposals how about coming up with some of their own.

That's not really a good option though, Dil. Both sides can use bluff and double bluff all they like during negotiations but, ultimately, a good deal is the preferred option for both sides.

a deal deemed BAD by both sides is the sign of a good compromise

i seem to recollect a similar load of nonsense when it came to bailing out greece

That is why WW2 broke out!

And Germany's ambitions had nothing to do with it?

WW2 broke because of the deal Germany forced through on their debt in the EU.

WTF are you on about.

O and have you worked out yet how we reapply to join the EU?

Martini,

You are obviously a bright chap.


At the moment we are not outside the EU.

Wait and see, but I think we will still be wishing to eat at the table of the EU without sitting at it.

Just wandering around outside with a begging bowl in hand.

The only thing is that you may be able to do is look at the menu but not order from it.

Might suit you, but others prefer a more convivial relationship.

-=-=--=

PS.

WW2 broke because of the deal Germany forced through on their debt in the EU.


Explain exactly what you are referring to and what the implications were?

Humour me.

Fred
These two posts

11 Oct 2017 17:11 - 7820 of 7824

a deal deemed BAD by both sides is the sign of a good compromise

i seem to recollect a similar load of nonsense when it came to bailing out greece

Fred1new 11 Oct 2017 17:21 - 7821 of 7824

That is why WW2 broke out


As for Brexit, we are leaving there is nothing in the Lisbon treaty that reverses that, so how do we do it?

Martini,

I don't understand what you are trying to argue!

PS. I was being facetious in regards to what I thought an oversimplistic flippancy by Cynic and emphasised by reference to WW2.

Also, I am happy for you to have comfort yourself with your belief that Brexit is irrevocable.

I also believe that contracts and dealing with the UK nearest trading area will be very similar to those that we have now, but more complicated and difficult to implement.

My guess is that money is already fleeing from London and doubtful whether it will return, after the "exit" date.

If we leave why should it, the UK will have no real say in EU legislation etc..

If we stay in the EU, why should it. The UK has proved itself to be an unreliable and untrustworthy partner.

The rules will probably be similar the costs higher.

Adolescent self-destructive behaviour comes to mind.

That's a new one (or maybe not)

Fred doesent understand the argument, yet try's to rubbish it.

Maybe Martini will realise now how much Fred just sits at his computer bored all day looking to be controversial .

fred - your intial comment re WW2 was wrong anyway .....
perhaps you didn't read what i actually wrote ...... "a deal deemed BAD by both sides is the sign of a good compromise"

Manuel,

The "forced compromise" at Treaty of Versaille 1919 and the "punishing" of Germany was, and still is held, as partially responsible for the rise of Hitler to power.

The contents of the treaty may have been inevitable but caused resentment and discontent which was fermented by Fascism.

A compromise often has the problem of ongoing dissatisfaction, sometimes dormant for years, but present.

If you used the word "best" rather than "good" your expression might be more valid.