Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Gausie .... i think "apologist" may be derogatory, or have i suddenly got thin-skinned, unlikely as that may be! ..... as you may (not) have realised, i march to my own tune, but admit that in this instance i tend to be more anti-israel than anything ... that does not mean i am pro-hamas either, but assuredly have immense sympathy for what in the main are the innocent families caught in the middle of everything in Gaza

Wasn't meant as derogatory - but feel free to take offence if that's what you'd prefer.

We all have sympathy for the innocent and decent families caught in the middle of this. But you choose to forget - there are innocent and peace loving families on BOTH sides of the border.

The difference between our views is that I blame Hamas and only Hamas for dragging the innocents into this conflict - both Palestinian and Israeli.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for provoking the war - for knowing the likely outcome of their missile attacks against Israeli civilians but continuing regardless.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for hiding behind their own Palestinian civilians and exposing them to the inevitable outcomes.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for using their own people as human shields, and launching missiles from the most densely populated areas.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for failing to build shelters for them - shelters that are commonplace in all parts of the region, and which have been amply funded by the international community.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for their leaders conducting their entire operation from inside a bunker under the main Gaza hospital.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for smuggling weapons through their tunnels when the people need medicine and food. They could easily have smuggled aid instead - and with no smuggled rockets and missiles being launched at Israel the borders would have been reopened anyway.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for rejecting the path to peace - without rockets and kidnappings there would have been no need for incursion.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for prolonging the violence and suffering inflicted on the Palestinians.

I blame Hamas and only Hamas for mindlessly attacking innocent Israelis peacefully going about their business in the southern and border towns.

You prefer to blame the victims.

Gausie .... i almost never take offense, and this certainly is not one such occasion .... i note that you blame hamas for absolutely everything (perhaps for our snow here too!), and leaving aside the iranian valuable contribution to this conflict, do you blame or hold israel culpable for anything at all?

I hold Israel responsible for not trying to stamp out the rockets sooner.

how interesting ..... and would you suggest they also start bombing various installations in iran? ..... or perhaps the ships said to be carrying the missiles for hamas?

It's an idea worthy of consideration.

Do you remember when they destroyed Iraq's fledgling nuclear capability in 1981? The world would be a very much worse place if they hadn't.

1981 destruction of Saddam's nuclear capability

I suspect it is just a matter of time before Israel does bomb Iran's nuclear developments. If Israel do find that they are planning nuclear weapons (and I am sure they have spies working on it), then bombing the development areas would seem sensible at least from Israel's point of view. It is quite clear who the target would be. I would think that many in the West would be secretly pleased if Israel were to remove a nuclear threat from Iran. I know I would.

and bombing the ships?

Cynic - it's widely believed that the weapons ship transporting rockets and other arms from Iran to Gaza, currently held in Cyprus is only being held because Israel would sink it or otherwise detain it if it were to be released. And rightly so.

They don't need to be bombed. The Israeli navy will intercept and arrest them.. Perfectly kosher, if you'll pardon the expression.

One of my kids said that the name of Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, sounded like "I'm a dinner jacket". Now, whenever I hear his name on the news I hear it said that way. You wait, you will hear it that way now!

MM .... you mean they'll cut the crew's throats and hang them upside down from the yardarms?

Gausie ..... i only raise the question, but you haven't actually answered it ..... to repeat - do YOU think israel should bomb or torpedo the ships if they get even half a chance?

Haystack ..... or depending on who is cooking that night, aka Ah-me-dinner-dad or Ah-me-dinner-mum

Cynic - I answered - and I'll post it again with some emphasis to make it clearer for you.

Cynic - it's widely believed that the weapons ship transporting rockets and other arms from Iran to Gaza, currently held in Cyprus is only being held because Israel would sink it or otherwise detain it if it were to be released. And rightly so.

Your slit throats and yardarms comment is disingenuous and stupid. You know all too well that that's not how the IDF (or indeed any modern western military) functions. You're obviously reading (and now writing) too much jihadi propaganda.

G: I think cynic was alluding to my "kosher" remark, his description of slit throats alluding to the approved method for slaughtering kosher meat. I took it as a joke.

In reply to below;


Fred:

Compared with the carnage and murder Israel has committed it is peanuts.

You appal me. You really can only see one side of this.

Hamas is a terrorist organization that has hijacked Gaza to perpetrate its war on Israel. When will you open your eyes?



MM. I thought that you would be able to tell the difference between a blanket and a corpse, even if it is the corpse of a Palestinian.

Perhaps, the value you place on a Palestinian life is less than that of an Israeli.

For me a life of a person of any nationality is of equal value.

=========================================

MM, Also, it seems to me, that you have a short and seemingly selective memory.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

Hamas was elected government of Gaza. Like it, or not.

They were elected partially due to the chaos left behind by the Israeli exit and because of the corrupt organisation and management attribituted to Fahah.

Any change was viewed or hoped would be better than what they had or had had in that period.

(A little like the collapse of the Tory government in 1997. Ie. any change was better than what we had at the time.)

As I have written before, I dont consider Hamas as pure as the driven snow and have condemned their violent actions and murdering. But, in the end, they will have to be negotiated with, if peace is to be achieved.

Again you memory seems to be overlooking Israels glorious past of terrorist actions, such as The King David Hotel, when over ninety people were killed and more than 50 were injured.

Perhaps, you also forget such Israeli terrorist groups such as the Stern Gang.


Again try and recall the Sabra-Shatila massacre of between 1000-3000 Palestinians were murdered at the instigation of Ariel Sharon.


The IRA was a terrorist organisation, which was eventually negotiated with as they represented a large group of the population of Northern Irelands.

So it will be similar in the Middle East.

Two sites I have just come across. Worth reading.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/04/terrorism/




http://atheism.about.com/library/world/AJ/bl_IsraelTerror.htm

MM .... isn't it terrible when you have to explain jokes to these bloody foreigners? .... even most g****s would probably understand it

There's little point in Israel's negotiating with an organistion whose sole objective is the destruction of Israel and the killing of all Jews. Don't bother to argue with me over that, Fred, it's in the Hamas Charter in written writing since 1987. That is their "Mission Statement".

The IRA only went to the negotiating table after it had effectively been beaten militarily and the only remaining hope of power for Adams/McGuinness lay in suing for peace before their organisation completely collapsed.

As you must well know, some factions of the Provisional IRA (rebranded as "32 counties IRA" and "Continuity IRA" just as the Provos were a rebranded "Official IRA") have never accepted the deal and continue to build bombs to slaughter the population with. A 300 pound car bomb was defused in the last week, as I recall.

A terrorist is a terrorist. They are nihilists. They are born to destroy, they train their children to destroy and die destroying. They're going to be pretty annoyed when they find there's no damned afterlife.

As for the Jewish terrorists that murdered British troops during the Palestine Mandate, I condemn them too. They did the classic "liberation" fighter thing of killing people to make them leave -- when those people were leaving anyway. It happened in Cyprus and Aden, too.

But then I expect that you will dismiss all I say as "rhetoric". Don't know why I bother to waste the bandwidth arguing with you -- maybe it's because I like a challenge in trying to bring light and enlightenment to the dark corners of people's minds.

MM .... terrorists are de facto nihilists??? ...... i don't think so!! .... that a terrorist (an adequate label of convenience) may have neither regard nor respect for human life nor any value of his own, does not make him a nihilist ..... i think i am correct in saying that a nihilist cannot believe in an afterlife as he does not believe there is any superior being or creator ..... a nihilist is therefore amoral rather than immoral, at least in his own eyes

cynic: your analysis of the semantics of the word "nihilist" is better than my sloppy use of the word. You're right, although it may transpire that the Generals of Hamas are nihilists who nonetheless encourage their followers or footsoldiers to believe in an afterlife or Paradise as a reward for martyrdom.