Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Stan
Martini is far more likely post a reasoned argument than you. In fact I have never read one from you about anything. You just indulge in playground taunts.

Max,

I hitchhiked down to Marseille and Cassi in about 1956 and met up with other students of about the same age but with differing political views/interest.

I must admit I was sceptical of a United States of Europe then, but it was being voiced at that time. And continued to be voiced by many until the present.

Likewise, I hitched hike to the World Fair in Brussels and spoke with students of many nationalities (including some from the Commonwealth and again "United Europe" was being voiced.

It was a period of left of centre socialism and detente in student and other organisations and a feeling of optimism existed.

Students of other countries wanted to mix and appeared friendly, and helped others to travel or work "abroad".

I must admit I had been rather insular and possibly quite a large little Welshman until that period.

I admit that mixing and discussing with other nationalities made be realise the victors of WW2 had much in common with other Europeans as well as other nationalities.

My opinion has not changed.

Perhaps, as far as Germany being the leader of Europe is concerned, it may be the rest of the Europe is in agreement with what the say and do.

They don't appear to be trying to tear up contracts as frequently as others.

He's your bitch Freda, come on sort him out. :0)

He , Stan is just a total and seasoned Pisstaker , no doubt about it ,and his boss is a dreamer who dreams up endless claptrap just to annoy .

Well after that predictable response...it's time for another one thats oh so true.

I read somewhere that interest rates in Germany should be 6.2% according to some theory (Taylor's I think). If that's the case then German inflationary pressure is building.

Interesting perspective on Brexit by David Owen.

Click here

You remainiacs must be getting very worried about the mogster :-)

Bloomberg states the obvious https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/michael-bloomberg-brexit-is-stupidest-thing-any-country-has-done-besides-trump?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=249358&subid=23313800&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Well, as Mandy Rice Davies more famously remarked " he would say that wouldn't he?"
It is in his interest but not ours.

Bloomer stating the obvious...as he sees it

Gliding serene and untroubled from one gated community to another.

'because if they didn't pay a penalty then everyone else would drop out' ... yep that says it all Stan , no one wants to be in the EU really.

David Davis says Parliament’s vote on the final Brexit deal may not happen until AFTER we leave the EU in March 2019

Brexit Secretary said trade talks could carry on beyond the end of the Article 50 period – meaning no matter what the agreement is there would be no chance to turn back

Hmmm. Not sure how that's gonna fit in with Stanley's 'informed' referendum then. :o)

That is consistent with tory thinking.

What you would expect of products of Eton, Oxford's and Cambridge's and Machiavellian policies taught in their PPE degree courses.

8=)

I will polish my chip.

I'm not sure that it's got anything to do with the Tories, Fred, nor with Oxford PPE, where the economics tutors tend to be very much pro-European. It's something that'll be very much in the hands of the negotiators on both sides. I don't know why they'll need to make it so protracted, but I'm sure they will. It's crazy, because it's in both sides best interest to strike up a good deal asap, but you've only got to look back at the recent EU/Canada trade deal to see how long that took because the pig farmers in Woldovia (or some other unheard of place sounding equally as stupid) had the hump about something and nothing.

I'd liken it to football transfer deadline day where clubs have a couple of months to get deals done, yet they always seem to leave it until a minute to midnight on the last day when there's a great flurry of activity.

It's TM who should be playing hardball, the EU has a £71b trade surplus with the UK

That's a very short sighted way of looking at it.

Sure, the UK has an overall trade deficit with the EU, but within the numbers, the UK has a trade SURPLUS with the EU in services to the tune of £40bn. The UK is a world leader in the provision of financial services, and 13% of UK GDP comes from the financial service sector. Also, 13% of UK exports go to the EU, whereas only 3% or 4% of the EU's exports end up in the UK.

So, if the UK bounces out of the EU without a good trade deal, and without replacement trade deals elsewhere already agreed, British business will take a hit, sterling will fall through the floor, and all of your imported food and Mercs will cost a helluva lot more. Leaving the EU is one thing, but purposefully shooting yourself in the foot is something completely different.

Maggie May isn't really in any position to play hardball. It's more about respect, and working together to find a solution. The most important thing imo is to get the transition period agreed, and to use that period to forge ahead with the new trade deals so there's not a horror show in the event that you crash out of the EU with no deal or a bad deal.

what other sort of comment would one expect from fred who hasn't changed his views since his student days of the mid 50's?