Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

You remainiacs must be getting very worried about the mogster :-)

Bloomberg states the obvious https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/michael-bloomberg-brexit-is-stupidest-thing-any-country-has-done-besides-trump?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=249358&subid=23313800&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Well, as Mandy Rice Davies more famously remarked " he would say that wouldn't he?"
It is in his interest but not ours.

Bloomer stating the obvious...as he sees it

Gliding serene and untroubled from one gated community to another.

'because if they didn't pay a penalty then everyone else would drop out' ... yep that says it all Stan , no one wants to be in the EU really.

David Davis says Parliament’s vote on the final Brexit deal may not happen until AFTER we leave the EU in March 2019

Brexit Secretary said trade talks could carry on beyond the end of the Article 50 period – meaning no matter what the agreement is there would be no chance to turn back

Hmmm. Not sure how that's gonna fit in with Stanley's 'informed' referendum then. :o)

That is consistent with tory thinking.

What you would expect of products of Eton, Oxford's and Cambridge's and Machiavellian policies taught in their PPE degree courses.

8=)

I will polish my chip.

I'm not sure that it's got anything to do with the Tories, Fred, nor with Oxford PPE, where the economics tutors tend to be very much pro-European. It's something that'll be very much in the hands of the negotiators on both sides. I don't know why they'll need to make it so protracted, but I'm sure they will. It's crazy, because it's in both sides best interest to strike up a good deal asap, but you've only got to look back at the recent EU/Canada trade deal to see how long that took because the pig farmers in Woldovia (or some other unheard of place sounding equally as stupid) had the hump about something and nothing.

I'd liken it to football transfer deadline day where clubs have a couple of months to get deals done, yet they always seem to leave it until a minute to midnight on the last day when there's a great flurry of activity.

It's TM who should be playing hardball, the EU has a £71b trade surplus with the UK

That's a very short sighted way of looking at it.

Sure, the UK has an overall trade deficit with the EU, but within the numbers, the UK has a trade SURPLUS with the EU in services to the tune of £40bn. The UK is a world leader in the provision of financial services, and 13% of UK GDP comes from the financial service sector. Also, 13% of UK exports go to the EU, whereas only 3% or 4% of the EU's exports end up in the UK.

So, if the UK bounces out of the EU without a good trade deal, and without replacement trade deals elsewhere already agreed, British business will take a hit, sterling will fall through the floor, and all of your imported food and Mercs will cost a helluva lot more. Leaving the EU is one thing, but purposefully shooting yourself in the foot is something completely different.

Maggie May isn't really in any position to play hardball. It's more about respect, and working together to find a solution. The most important thing imo is to get the transition period agreed, and to use that period to forge ahead with the new trade deals so there's not a horror show in the event that you crash out of the EU with no deal or a bad deal.

what other sort of comment would one expect from fred who hasn't changed his views since his student days of the mid 50's?

hilary - while camel farmers can get the hump, surely pig farmers must just grunt and wonder why the trough's empty

Hilary,

P 7981

I was taking the Mickey.

I have a grandson who is "politically" motivated and at the moment is interested such courses and quiet ambitions. (I tease him as he does likewise to me.)

But it is the fault of Cameron and cronies being smart arses trying to solve "party problems" which has produced the present problem.

Again I don't think EU negotiators are idiots and they won't be bullied or blustered into making decisions which are not rational and will harm the remaining 27 members.

-==

I agree with P7983, but think the consequences to the UK will be harmful to the average person's "living standards" in the UK and very little to the "Europeans" in general.

The EU can afford to procrastinate, the UK can't without suffering the pain.

Negotiations may have similarities to playing poker, but at the level of this game is similar to chess with all the information on the board in front of one.

-=-=-=

(My father when he had "management" problems with "labour" had the practice of spotting them before they grew out of proportion, "nipping" them in the bud and asking the "unions" and other "contenders" to come to the "office" to have a chat and settle the differences before actions were taken which were deleterious to both sides.

He used to say how daft the argument and differences were in practice but both sides would have lost by strikes.

Thankfully he had a good sense of humour.

Fred,

You may have been taking the Mickey, but your reputation precedes you. I shall forgive you this once, but please don't do it again. :o)

You're right insofar as Cameron is totally to blame for the current situation. He had one job to do, and he failed abysmally. Unfortunately, the Brits just don't know how to play the Europeans. If they did, things would be different.

However, I disagree that the EU can afford to procrastinate. They can't. If the UK leaves without a deal, there'll be a gaping hole in their budget, and the German tax-paying public are unlikely to have the appetite to bail the rest of the bloc out. I think both sides have as much to lose as each other, albeit in different forms.

You can argue the toss any way you like, but a crash out with added trade war is for sure not in €uropes interest, especially Germany: No wonder the german manufacturers are jumping up and down and foaming at the mouth.


https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

I'm backing Britain?..bring back the Beatles as well.

The gruan and fellow travellers must be getting pretty desperate...just look at Fred and Stan :-)

If you look a bit closer Max I think that you will find that the two in the pic. are those useless good for nothing time wasters... dopey David Davis and looser Mother Teresa 😀

How often do I have to explain the difference between loose and lose? Pay attention. No wonder most of the tools at B&Q are called Stanley.