Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

In reply to below;


Fred:

Compared with the carnage and murder Israel has committed it is peanuts.

You appal me. You really can only see one side of this.

Hamas is a terrorist organization that has hijacked Gaza to perpetrate its war on Israel. When will you open your eyes?



MM. I thought that you would be able to tell the difference between a blanket and a corpse, even if it is the corpse of a Palestinian.

Perhaps, the value you place on a Palestinian life is less than that of an Israeli.

For me a life of a person of any nationality is of equal value.

=========================================

MM, Also, it seems to me, that you have a short and seemingly selective memory.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

Hamas was elected government of Gaza. Like it, or not.

They were elected partially due to the chaos left behind by the Israeli exit and because of the corrupt organisation and management attribituted to Fahah.

Any change was viewed or hoped would be better than what they had or had had in that period.

(A little like the collapse of the Tory government in 1997. Ie. any change was better than what we had at the time.)

As I have written before, I dont consider Hamas as pure as the driven snow and have condemned their violent actions and murdering. But, in the end, they will have to be negotiated with, if peace is to be achieved.

Again you memory seems to be overlooking Israels glorious past of terrorist actions, such as The King David Hotel, when over ninety people were killed and more than 50 were injured.

Perhaps, you also forget such Israeli terrorist groups such as the Stern Gang.


Again try and recall the Sabra-Shatila massacre of between 1000-3000 Palestinians were murdered at the instigation of Ariel Sharon.


The IRA was a terrorist organisation, which was eventually negotiated with as they represented a large group of the population of Northern Irelands.

So it will be similar in the Middle East.

Two sites I have just come across. Worth reading.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/04/terrorism/




http://atheism.about.com/library/world/AJ/bl_IsraelTerror.htm

MM .... isn't it terrible when you have to explain jokes to these bloody foreigners? .... even most g****s would probably understand it

There's little point in Israel's negotiating with an organistion whose sole objective is the destruction of Israel and the killing of all Jews. Don't bother to argue with me over that, Fred, it's in the Hamas Charter in written writing since 1987. That is their "Mission Statement".

The IRA only went to the negotiating table after it had effectively been beaten militarily and the only remaining hope of power for Adams/McGuinness lay in suing for peace before their organisation completely collapsed.

As you must well know, some factions of the Provisional IRA (rebranded as "32 counties IRA" and "Continuity IRA" just as the Provos were a rebranded "Official IRA") have never accepted the deal and continue to build bombs to slaughter the population with. A 300 pound car bomb was defused in the last week, as I recall.

A terrorist is a terrorist. They are nihilists. They are born to destroy, they train their children to destroy and die destroying. They're going to be pretty annoyed when they find there's no damned afterlife.

As for the Jewish terrorists that murdered British troops during the Palestine Mandate, I condemn them too. They did the classic "liberation" fighter thing of killing people to make them leave -- when those people were leaving anyway. It happened in Cyprus and Aden, too.

But then I expect that you will dismiss all I say as "rhetoric". Don't know why I bother to waste the bandwidth arguing with you -- maybe it's because I like a challenge in trying to bring light and enlightenment to the dark corners of people's minds.

MM .... terrorists are de facto nihilists??? ...... i don't think so!! .... that a terrorist (an adequate label of convenience) may have neither regard nor respect for human life nor any value of his own, does not make him a nihilist ..... i think i am correct in saying that a nihilist cannot believe in an afterlife as he does not believe there is any superior being or creator ..... a nihilist is therefore amoral rather than immoral, at least in his own eyes

cynic: your analysis of the semantics of the word "nihilist" is better than my sloppy use of the word. You're right, although it may transpire that the Generals of Hamas are nihilists who nonetheless encourage their followers or footsoldiers to believe in an afterlife or Paradise as a reward for martyrdom.

a semite with semantic pretensions perhaps! ..... i actually wonder how much of Hamas's direction is driven by outside influences (direction!), rather as Israel will often ask for Uncle Sam's tacit or even overt approval to carry out certain acts or incursions - see; i easily avoided inflammatory words like aggression and terrorism and atrocity etc!

Good to see Hamas making sure that the needy Palestinians are looked after by the UN.

"The UN aid agency in Gaza says it has suspended all aid shipments, accusing the Hamas government of seizing hundreds of tonnes of food supplies.

Ten truckloads of flour and rice were taken from the Palestinian side of the Kerem Shalom crossing, the UN's Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa) said.

Unrwa said it was the second such theft in recent days, and sought assurances from Hamas there would be no repeat."


UN halts Gaza aid over 'thefts' - BBC

Pretty much as I expected MM. I don't really know why they send 'aid' into these sort of situations.

It wouldn't surprise me if Hamas were no sending this loot through the tunnels to Egypt to sell with the aim of buying more missiles.

Its a funny old world.

MM, What is your proof that there is no afterlife or Paradise?

I do not believe in a god and therefore I have a belief. But, I find it difficult to deny somebody elses belief in a god, or to say that they are wrong in doing so.

What I find interesting is the degree of certainty you appear to have about what is right and wrong for yourself and then appear to wish these standards to be applied to others.

Unless a person is psychotic, I find it difficult to believe that person is amoral, although his moral code or conscience may differ from mine, or yours. I think that the moral code of an individual is not set in concrete, or stone and does modify in response to new understandings gained consciously or unconsciously from living. Of course you may be blinkered and not be prepared to reappraise you positioning.


I found your statement; A terrorist is a terrorist. They are nihilists. They are born to destroy, they train their children to destroy and die destroying, interesting.

You seem to ignore Israels glorious past of Israeli terrorists such as Stern, Ben Gurion, Menachen Begin etc.. They were guilty of multiple murders and other criminal actions.

I think the named, became leading lights or politicians in the government of Israel.

Perhaps you are inferring that Hamas is a different species of being from the people of Israel and unable to change.

It seems to me that you as well as some of the present Israeli government are in a time warp with views and actions more appropriate to the Middle Ages.

If what is stated about the ten tons of rice, I think the action was wrong.

But how much corruption has been attributed to leading members of recent Israeli governments. I believe there are inquiries continuing.

MM, What is your proof that there is no afterlife or Paradise?

I do not believe in a god and therefore I have a belief. But, I find it difficult to deny somebody elses belief in a god, or to say that they are wrong in doing so.

What I find interesting is the degree of certainty you appear to have about what is right and wrong for yourself and then appear to wish these standards to be applied to others.

Unless a person is psychotic, I find it difficult to believe that person is amoral, although his moral code or conscience may differ from mine, or yours. I think that the moral code of an individual is not set in concrete, or stone and does modify in response to new understandings gained consciously or unconsciously from living. Of course you may be blinkered and not be prepared to reappraise you positioning.


I found your statement; A terrorist is a terrorist. They are nihilists. They are born to destroy, they train their children to destroy and die destroying, interesting.

You seem to ignore Israels glorious past of Israeli terrorists such as Stern, Ben Gurion, Menachen Begin etc.. They were guilty of multiple murders and other criminal actions.

I think the named, became leading lights or politicians in the government of Israel.

Perhaps you are inferring that Hamas is a different species of being from the people of Israel and unable to change.

It seems to me that you as well as some of the present Israeli government are in a time warp with views and actions more appropriate to the Middle Ages.

If what is stated about the ten tons of rice, I think the action was wrong.

But how much corruption has been attributed to leading members of recent Israeli governments. I believe there are inquiries continuing.

rawdm999,
That's exactly what they do. They trade some of the donated humanitarian food and supplies for weapons and weapon building material. The amount of aid that actually gets through to civilians is limited as often non-food aid (after delivery by aid agencies) is forcibly taken away from people by Hamas for trading purposes.
Some of the food aid is as well because Hamas want it for their military personnel.
Richard

Freddy

To post such nonsense once may be regarded as a bit silly. To post it twice is astoundingly stupid.

G

and 3 times? - lol!

Charts,

Compared with murder, it is a minor crime.
Compared with trying to starve the Gaza and West Bank, it is a minor crimes.

Get your propaganda into proportion.

Fred.
Re-read the first half of your last (double) post
as thogh it were addressed to you.
Again read your last post.
By stealing aid they are starving the population.

Charts - I agree with Freddy

Hamas are specialists in murder, kidnapping and doing harm to the peaceful citizens of the Gaza. This latest episode of theft and extortion hardly even stretches them.

It is, as Freddy so eloquently points out, "a minor crimes"

Freddy then goes on to accuse you of a disproportionate response. But then he would say that, wouldn't he?

G

Very funny.

I believe the next line is: "Who was your father?"

Couldn't resist that as I played Earnest in The Importance of Being Earnest some (sorry, many) years ago.

Also see my previous post - estimate 95% of such aid is commandered by the military or authorities. Some might say that's little different to a Prime MInister agreeing to EU rules which work against the ordinary British Citizen in order to further one's own personal ambitions. Some might say that Mr Bliar did that...I couldn't possibly comment.

And Hi to those who left their best wishes for me on this thread. Hoping to get in touch with Spaceman to meet up, now he has presumably returned from Oz.

Maggot old boy - glad you're keeping up. I had feared it was wasted on freddy.

"Freddy then goes on to accuse you of a disproportionate response"
Gausie,
I assume you are saying he means me.
He's squelched so I don't waste any of my precious time reading his gibberish.
Don't give a monkey's.
Don't respect him.
Don't value him.
Not even funny any more.
Not even sad any more.
Just zilch.

I do enjoy reading the intelligent posts on this thread, though, even from those I disagree strongly with.
Richard