To settle an arguement-Can anyone out there give me an example (name could remain confidential)of a 'successful' trader ie anyone who has made his/her fortune out of tradeing the stocks on a regular basis. I have been told that this is a VERY rare breed only to be found in fiction novels!
I'm in the running, but a wee while to go yet !!
Thanks-Jim

"A successful day trader would have stayed in while it went from 8 to 52"

Thats not Day Trading

Hi,

I said swam with the waves i.e.bought and sold en route-EXACTLY what Morgan
Stanley did.
rgds aj

Hi Aj, I think we're on the right wave-length, ie I trade predominantly HBOS cfd's, long and short daily/weekly depending on position. Have had great/terrible results, but now at last seem to be getting somewhere that leads to more tangeble gains.
The reason I posted the Q, is that it would be encourageing to find (not only for myself) some-one was actually makeing a living as a trader, as I myself will shortly be giving up my 'day job' to put it to the test for real!
Cheers, Jim

jparis,
be careful about giving up the day job to trade... that could force you into doing trades when you shouldn't. Sometimes you 'make' more money doing nothing... i.e., not trading. Sometimes it is better not to screen watch and just let your profits run. If you are looking at the profit it is just too easy to take it to say you have made money on the day.
Some of my best trades are when I have let them fall/rise (depending on if you are long or short of course) a bit and be on less of a profit, but then see them rise again and really pleased I didn't cash in too quickly just to have weekly/daily target.
It can be boring doing nothing!!

Hi Scripophilist, How come your message is filtered and we can't read it?? Could you e-mail me direct. Ta, Amber

It is probably fair to say day-trading is starting it's second wave of popularity, the first is normally regarded as the increased numbers coincident with the rapid growth of internet trading a few years ago. At the height of the first wave, more pronounced in the US of course, the SEC felt the large numbers involved in day-trading there especially playing leveraged positions was cause for investigation. Ultimately the report concluded no action was needed at that time but a watching brief should be maintained. The devil was in the detail of course, a footnote stated that 70 - 80% of traders were following strategies that would lead them to severe loss / insolvency.

I have been in the fortunate position of not having to work for the last 10 years or so and am comfortably well off. I have on and off dipped into day trading as it were. I dont believe many so called day traders make any large amounts of money, the vast majority lose. I have tried all sorts of methods and have generally lost out. Last year 9k and this year 2.7k and thats not doing it every day. Mostly on ftse/dow indices and stocks by spread betting.
As a foot note, I tried a company that will remain nameless for cfd trading, I have just closed that account them having lost me 12k since sep 03. So the so called professionals are just as bad if not worse than me.

amberjane,

If you're unable to read Scrip's post, it's because you've "Squelched" him (possibly accidentally). If you click on his blue name on this thread, then click the tab to "Squelch" messages for this user, you should be able to see which users are filtered and check the boxes to unfiltered him/them.

I am a daytrader.
rgds aj

Thanks Hilary, I'm not aware I've 'Squelched' anyone. Hopt it didn't hurt!

I have been a daytrader for many years and can confirm it is not easy! However with trading costs constantly falling due to competition amongst the brokers it is certainly becoming more feasible.
The majority of people who start to daytrade do fail and mainly because of a lack of discipline. Get out of losing positions FAST and let the good ones RUN!
Best of luck
D.

Depends what you clasify as successful - 10,20,30K a year or just winning more than you loose ?

I am at the same point as yourself jparis. I have traded on and off for about 4 years, but seriously over the last 7 months. In that time I doubled my initial stake of 14k.....I am now seriously thinking about going for it big time. I have made about 70k in my house and am thinking of selling up, taking the profit and with a trading bank of 100k....start to chase my dream. If things go well I reckon i will make more than enough to be better off than been at work. Though obviously I have no house....

Everyone thinks I am a lunatic but i've spent my life listening to other people, who never have the balls to consider something different than a 9-5 job, and I am sick to the back teeth of having people at work, that I don't rate, make decisions about my career prospects etc.

So im seriously considering taking one year out of my life and just give it a go....to hell with the consequences. If you have faith in yourself thats what counts..

As an Omnitrade user I was sent details of the Turtle plug in last year. As I was intending to buy the 2004 version I did not get the Turtle add on but am posting this for jparis and molatovkid plus any others as the last two paras explain the mental approach I think is needed plus of course careful control of the amounts staked with low operating costs. Knowing what to do and then doing it is not easy for some of us! anyway heres the note: Trading System plug-in for OmniTrader 2003


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1983 famous commodities trader Richard Dennis was having an ongoing dispute with his long-time friend Bill Eckhardt about whether great traders were born or made. Richard believed that he could teach people to become great traders. Bill thought that genetics was the determining factor.

In order to settle the matter, Richard suggested that they recruit and train some traders and give them actual accounts to trade to see which one of them was correct. They took out a large ad advertising positions for trading apprentices in Barron's, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. The ad stated that after a brief training session, the trainees would be supplied with an account to trade.

They were invited to Chicago and trained for two weeks at the end of December, 1983. They began trading small accounts at the beginning of January. After they proved themselves, Dennis funded most of the trainees with $1 million in February.

"The students were called the 'Turtles.' (Mr. Dennis, who says he had just returned from Asia when he started the program, explains that he described it to someone by saying, 'We are going to grow traders just like they grow turtles in Singapore.')" The Turtles became the most famous experiment in trading history because over the next four years, they earned an average annual compound rate of return of 80%.

Rich proved that with a simple set of rules, he could take people with little or no trading experience and make them excellent traders.

Most successful traders use a mechanical trading system. This is no coincidence. A good mechanical trading system automates the entire process of trading. The system provides answers for each of the decisions a trader must make while trading. The system makes it easier for a trader to trade consistently because there are a set of rules which specifically define what should be done. The mechanics of trading is not left up to the judgment of the trader. If you know that your system makes money over the long run it is easier to take the signals and trade according to the system during periods of losses. If you are relying on your own judgment during trading you may find that you are fearful just when you should be bold and courageous when you should be cautious.

If you have a mechanical trading system that works, and you follow it rigorously your trading will be consistent despite the inner emotional struggles that might come from a long series of losses, or a large profit. The confidence, consistency, and discipline that a thoroughly tested mechanical system affords is the key to many of the most profitable traders' success.

pericles hi, I was going to ask if you like this system (Omnitrade) but you obviously do or you wouldn't be using it. What's good and bad about it ? May buy a copy but I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say otherwise I'm relying on the testimonials on their website.

Hi 38, Ive been using OT end of day for several years, and bought it originally after comments by users.This years version has improvements over the Y2k as you would expect but needs a newer computer. There is a lot in the package and you can choose from an impressive collection of indicators and systems. I posted up on this board abt Kirshenbaum signals on the daily Ftse from abt Jan 2003 to Apr 03,taken from my OT.(see Spreadbetting thread by Tradman) I was very pleased that acting on the sigs at next day opening prices and closing the day after the reversing signal would have given something like 1100 points over that period.The market trended up from march though, and the Kirshenbaum sigs gave repeated sells. No signal fits all! Back to the drawing board, atm I am using a combination of trend signals which are infrequent but very reliable so far,I may post up on this if reliability continues. I do look at the OT charts before occasional betting on the daily ftse,but do not have the feed for the"Real Time" facility I imagine this to be mainly for US users.If you read Playboys thread he daily posts up the OT free comments on the Dow ,Traders Room.OT also do a live email to subscribers saying what to do when the Dow reaches / breaks a resistance. I subscribed, but although they did as advertised it was not for me so I tried to cancel.The subs were dealt with by an agency, not OT, the result was I had made the 4th or 5th payment after my original request to cancel before I got it stopped and my card account was refunded. Anyway back to whats good abt it: you can use trending or 7day or swing trading youcan choose the style which best suits you but its not for intra day as a rule.There is an unmentioned cost of the daily data, 15 per month and vat, I also get sectors and indexes, there is no volume with these, if the sector goes one way and your proposed share goes tother may keep you out of a loss!One other thing is the guide book which explains much better than I do. Yes I would certainly buy it again, I do best when I dont think I know better and I simply act on the signal but then thats just me.The London agent is always very helpful at:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


161 Elm Park Mansions
Park Walk
London, SW10 OAX

Telephone: 020 7352 8179
Regards,
Chris

SignalTraders
161 Elm Park Mansions
Park Walk
London, SW10 OAX

Telephone: 020 Good luck whatever you choose.P.

Thanks. Keep you posted

pericles - Thanks for that post on omni very timely, I have been looking at that or trendsignal which zarif has just bought. do not know if they are similar but ts is 995 for EOD + feed,big diff. Must admit I like the look of omni and the on site presentaton is good. Happy hunting to all this week

Molatovkid Hi, Interesting to read your post (and all the others) I have had a similar reaction from my peers, especially my familly ! most of whom were/are genuinely afraid that I would lose everything and end up signed in to a gamblers annonymous club!! which is to be honest is fair comment from their angle, it is also an area that I take very seriously. To reduce the risk of 'gambling fever' I have tried hard to treat this as I would any other business venture-cut out the emotions and stick to the plan!
I work on a very simple system that seems to come up with the goods, haveing lost a significant sum during the recent'crash' I now know what it's like to lose your shirt, a valuable lesson indeed. However it has not put me off the idea of making a good steady living on the 'market', just made me a lot more carefull.
I won't comment on your house-selling idea, exept-does your starting fund have to be 100k?
All the best