Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

After you have read a few books on the social and economic history of Britain in the 1920s and 1930s.

Look at the deprivation and squalor in South Wales, Scotland Ireland and North or England due in part to Capitalism and failed elitist and conservative policies.

Down to failure of capitalism and government's incompetence.

-=-==-=

Much of the reasons for the Coal Industry, Steel Industry and Railways etc. being nationalise after WW2 was due to them being run down and bombed out and antiquated after that war.

(The UK coal mining industry also had geological problems to contend with when competing with the overseas producers. The mines were going bankrupt. The railway stock was "old" and inefficient.

Without nationalisation, there would have been mass unemployment. The owners were more than compensated.)

Much of the management and unions did not help each other. Etc..

There is no real reason for a "business" to be more inefficient or efficient because it is state-owned rather than privately.

The question which should be asked is related to the motivational skills required in either sector.

To me, it would seem easier and more sensible to organise, control and plan centrally those sectors which effect a unit as a whole, with of course input from the periphery.

(My father's attitude to "strikes" was that both sides lost out when they happened and it took time to recover financially from them. Talk-talk, when possible was better.)

Like with Brexit, it would be better to discuss grievances than taking one's ball home.

discussing grievances in Bolshevik Russia in 20's and 30's (and beyond) would not have got you far other than to the nearest gulag

uk coal deposit owners "The owners were more than compensated" ..... i don't think so! .... well shafted would be apposite


"There is no real reason for a "business" to be more inefficient or efficient because it is state-owned rather than privately" ..... other than that unions traditionally fight modernisation, lower manpower etc etc


"control and plan centrally" - as in Bolshevik Russia in 20's and 30's and beyond .... totally disastrous as was proved

Cynic check your facts and then try and engage your brain. I can see why you supported Farage and the ugly bunch.

Mosley was a conservative party member and a conservative MP 1918-1924.
I suggest you read up a little more on Britain in the 20s and 30s. Have a look English history, 1914-1945 by A. J. P. Taylor

==-=-==-=-=-=-===

My father was responsible for drawing claims for a coal mine which was nationalised and didn't think that many of the claims were being made were realistic and the owners were overjoyed with what they received. (He had intimate knowledge of the pits of South Wales and later said regarding the closure of pits that "the writing had been on the wall in the 1950s and before that date. He thought that nationalisation of the pits, the steelworks and railways etc. had saved mass unemployment for many of those returning from the armed forces.) One of the reasons for nationalisation.

But also, you could look at the social and medical conditions of those living in the industrial areas, as well as considering the health and safety conditions of those working in the heavy industries. Especially. In the period 1900 to 1950.

I suggest you read more about the period a see the industries and businesses where relations between the unions, workforce and Management were harmonious and where "modernisation and technical advancements" were accepted willingly.
Mind there are none so blind as those who don't want to see.

-=-=-=-=-=

One reason for central government is that thiefdoms have gone out of fashion and to have an organised society you need an organising unit similar to a body having a brain. Mind I suppose for some time that you have managed to survive without one.
But perhaps, the tory losers, right-wing loonies and Brexiters want their thiefdoms back but for others to pay the bills for their madness.

Did the earth move for anyone else today ?

Never experienced anything like that before , whole house shook twice about 30 seconds apart.

I hope Mrs Dil had the same experience but it was probably the first of many tremors as the tectonic plates of European separation started to detach the UK from Europe. Many more to come eh?

What baffles me is Freda has the gall to denounce Capitalism in all it's forms but yet buys shares. What is he doing here? Answers on a post card. Plastic socialist :0) . Even Stan his best mate (pretty sure his only mate) is absent without leave. Come on Stan Burnley are doing ok defend your mentor (even if he is a sad bastard) You may have noticed Freda doesn't reply to my posts. Filtered since 2010 LOL! we all know why.

She certainly did M :-)

Was really weird you could actually feel the ground moving. Centre of the quake was only about 25 miles away.

fred clearly deludes himself that collectivism works ..... history shows that it was an unmitigated disaster

interestingly, cuba which is the last bastion of true (bolshevik) communism allows its farmers and others to retain 20% with the blace going to the state - fred's russia in 20's and 30's allowed absolutely zero, with severe retribution on any who infringed even to the n'th degree

however, cuba now finds itself in a bind .... while wishing to retain its communist structure, it also badly needs capitalist capital, either through tourism or inward investment

Manuel,

I think once again you are reading into posts what you wish in order to aid your case to be derogatory.

A bit like a redneck believing in fake news and then re-spouting his false revelations.

Clinging to your own words hoping that promoting fake news will elevate you and the case you wish to spout.

An unreliable approach, probably due to your memory becoming flakey, perhaps a little like you are becoming.

I suggest you judge history against previous periods. causes of events and circumstances in the world around them

Have an early night, a little rest may help you.

-=-=-=-=-=

By the way, Cuba before the "revolution" was a "Mafia" and "corrupt", "offshore den of iniquity mainly finance from the USA and by local "elite".

Post-revolution it economy was deliberately strangled by the USA, but in spite of those problems, the standard of education and health services etc. for all the citizens were better than previous.

Although, there was and still are gross inequalities the economy and "social" conditions are improving slowly.

But as a Trump redneck, you must know that.

Capitalism at work, trying to strangle Cuba's development.

-===-=-=-=

One of my daughters visited Cuba recently and was a little saddened by what she saw.

-=-=-=

Now off to bed and ask somebody to tuck you in.

fred - certainly cuba b4 the revolution was indeed as corrupt as they come .... however, some friends of mine who have just returned were not "saddened" in the slightest, but made the observation i effectively passed on ..... that said, my sister has been to cuba many times due to her husband's long involvement with the cigar industry

why was your daughter saddened?
was it because she found cuba no longer fully supported the (bolshevik) communist ideal that her father had instilled in her since a baby?

Manuel,

I think you have grown old but not grown up.

PS,

Do you have friends?

the relevance of the above being what?
nothing i guess, but just typical fred distraction tactics - that really do not work

I listened to the new universities minister, Sam Gyimah, over the weekend and was very impressed by the way he handled himself. He has a big job to alter the worse effects of the Blair policy and get youngsters into jobs that will be lasting and fulfilling. The increasing common partnerships between university research laboratories and industry is a good step forward.

Go back to mother.

Wow, this thread has been busy and flowing with venom from both sides of the house it seems to me.

Time to lighten it up a bit and take a look at the medals table in the Olympics: It seems that the left wing communist states and totalitarian countries are not very successful compared to the Free Liberal/Conservative Countries even at sport.

Come to think of it I cannot see JC in Lycra heading down the tracks expecting anything more than heading for a monumental crash, if he even dare give it a go (which I doubt he has the balls for), much like as would occur if his party were elected I guess.

swanse quake . bristol my niece was in the shower. alas the ground dosn't move
for me anymore, old age ? B B

You should take some of Manuel's Vit B.

why would i take any vitamin supplement?
i may be tired of fred and his silliness, but vitamin b would certainly not cure that

What is the world coming to when you can't get some KFC when you feel like being naughty!

You might feel better Fred1new if you keep taking those Sildenafil tablets that made you feel like Fred1new, as you must have wished you could get one over and one up on the other Liberal posters for a long time.