Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Hear Hear!! rf. What a miserable doom mongering, plastic lefty above, Keep the red flag flying Freda :0)

required field,

The UK aren't in the Schengen zone, and have always had total control of their own borders while they've been in the UK.

If they haven't been able to secure their borders up until now, what makes you think anything is going to change after they leave?

And what makes you think a trade deal with the US to buy their crappy Chryslers, and a trade deal with China to buy crap plastic toys, will be better than a trade deal with the EU to buy their Mercs and Grand Cru?

Here's a Schengen border. Look, no queues.

Spot the difference?

Yes, one is going where no-one wants to go: the other is going where everyone wants to.

Well neither picture is of people wanting to get into the UK, iturama. And you might be surprised to learn that the number of people passing through both borders each year isn't too dissimilar.

I agree that most of the problems we have now are entirely home made and will likely continue long after we have left the EU. Despite being a small island in the North Atlantic, it is amazing how many Chinese, Vietnamese and 'Stanalese have decided this is actually their true home. That apart, what is your point Hilary?

The 'point', iturama, is that the UK needs young, working immigration who pay taxes and help fund the welfare of an ageing population. When those young tax payers get old, they'll also need support, but, hey, that'll be somebody else's problem.

And yet, despite needing immigration, you close your borders in a futile attempt to keep undesirables out instead of changing your system such that it stops them wanting to come in the first place.

Somehow, I think some Brexiters are going to be mightily disappointed when they discover what they get from Brexit isn't what they thought they were voting for...

It and 251

Have a look at :

"We shouldn’t even be contemplating leaving the single market"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/19/wishful-brexit-thinking-will-not-create-jobs-or-fund-public-services


-=-==-=-=

and another quick look at "Britains Economy in Five Charts" which is included on the Business page.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/18/chancellor-hammond-budget-big-five

Well, I welcome most immigrants into the UK but I do want to see control on the numbers - as against 'no control' and theoretically unlimited numbers.

Isn't that what Farage wanted? I seem to think it is. He got into trouble by specifically mentioning Romanians. Then lots of his political opponents called him 'a rascist'.

IMHO, scruffy Romanian young men do most closely seem to resemble scruffy members of the 'travelling community' and these latter do seem to have a high criminal element in their numbers, albeit mostly with 'civil' matters. Illegal immigrants would seem to theoretically align easily with people of 'no fixed abode' too.

Perhaps Farage had similar feelings? Hence he is famous for making the general statement, "You would feel concerned if a group of Romanians moved in next door."

Perhaps he should have simply said, "immigrant criminals moved in next door" without mentioning any particular country?

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27459923

Absolutely, Doc.

I'd feel concerned if a group of Romanians moved in next door. Fortunately, they can't afford to. :o)

:-)

Ah, and so we get to the bottom line for Hilly.


Je vais bien Jacques..

EU budget wars heat up as Brexit reality starts to hit home



By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
16 November 2017 • 8:28pm


The Plaza Mayor of Trujillo. Regions like Extremadura in Spain would lose all their EU regional funding under plans floated in Brussels Credit: Guias Viajar


Brussels has begun to circulate the first confidential papers on how to plug the gaping hole in EU finances after Brexit, provoking serious alarm in regions and poorer countries across the bloc.

British withdrawal will slash EU revenues by 16pc once the current budget framework ends in 2020, forcing the Brussels to confront vocal vested interests. It threatens to ignite bitter divisions.

Draft documents from the European Commission map out three scenarios for the regions, including a drastic suspension of all aid to backward areas in the majority of countries. Payments would be confined to ‘cohesion’ funds for countries with per capita income below 90pc of the EU average, essentially Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.


More if you pay: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/11/16/eu-budget-wars-heat-brexit-reality-starts-hit-home/

Max,

I'm not so sure that it's a good idea to try to translate proper nouns, but, as you have already done so, I presume you're unaware that Jacques translates closest to James.

What about all these machines and robots that are going to take over then , massive unemployment in the future ? . People too much time on their hands not good .

I'm sure you are right hilly, but it seemed apt given that you appear to be comfortable and don't really give a shit about anyone less fortunate than yourself.

You wont find this on mainstream news, but it might give you pause for thought...cos, if everything is rosy, why would they even think of getting rid of this protection?




ECB Proposes End To Deposit Protection


by Tyler Durden

Nov 19, 2017 10:46 AM



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-19/ecb-proposes-end-deposit-protection

Merkel not doing well either failed talks at home , interesting times .

So Max,

Given that you clearly do care about those less fortunate than yourself, you're happy that a number of eastern European countries with next to zero GDP, and an unskilled population that had spent 8 hours a day for the last 30 years queuing for a loaf of bread, was allowed to join the EU so that hundreds of thousands of their people could emigrate to the UK to get free housing, claim benefits, get free healthcare, and wash cars for cash?

Personally, I wasn't happy about it all, and I'm not ashamed or embarrassed to say it, and I think that expansion of the EU was the point in time that the wheels started to fall off the EU bus.