Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Fred I'm not racist but....just do us all a favour and bugger off back to Wales :0)

I don't know rf, I get many emails from nice african gentlemen offering to give me £1M. Sometimes more if I help them just a little. They can't be all bad.

rf,

How do know the dodgy illegral mongrels were actually calling from inside the UK?

Normally fyi, they call from India, and are paid by UK-based CFA lawyers per solid lead.

Perhaps, after the exit the UK can become the new base for the con artists to operate from.

After all the city has to have something to occupy their time.

VICTIM - 20 Nov 2017 08:31 - 8102 of 8114
What about all these machines and robots that are going to take over then , massive unemployment in the future ? . People too much time on their hands not good .

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A government backed masturbation campaign - prescribing 5 a day. Keep the people busy and too tired to riot.

Cheers,
KidA

There's enough of that going on now KidA especially in the corridors of power .

Hils , how can you say we already have control of our borders when we have to let every Tom , Juan and Pedro in from the EU whether we want them here or not ?

VICTIM - 20 Nov 2017 11:57 - 8116 of 8117
There's enough of that going on now KidA especially in the corridors of power .

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Plenty of tossers in the Houses of Parliament so the expertise is there, it is just whether they can overcome divide and agree on method.

Cheers,
KidA

Dilbert,

You're not part of Schengen, so yes, you do have control of your borders. Nowadays, both entry and exit checks are performed on everyone passing through UK border control (unless they're hidden in the back of a truck).

However, there is freedom of movement across the EU for all EU citizens, and if you're a Romanian who has spent years in a bread queue, it's a no-brainer that you'll want to visit those gold-paved streets of London where they give away free houses, money for nothing, and are kind enough to sort out your ingrowing toenails for free. The rule is simple - whatever the UK government gives to UK citizens, they also have to give the same to all EU citizens.

So, as a deterrent to those undesirables, you change your own laws so you don't give all those benefits to anybody who hasn't been in the UK system for at least 5 years. Native Brits wouldn't be affected by that sort of law change in any way whatsoever. Take away the benefits, and they won't want to come, nor will all of the African refugees lining up outside Calais and Dunkerque.

The stupid thing is that other European countries apply those exact same rules, but the Brits just don't get how to play the system to their advantage.

I haven’t joined in this discussion before but this is why is vote for Brexit:

VAT MOSS

This means if a UK vat registered business sells a digital service for 79p, to someone living in Romania, they have to issue a VAT invoice for 19%, and complete a VAT MOSS return so the Romanian Government can get thier 13p by the 20 day after every quarter. This applies for sales made to each EU country. In October I received a rather nasty email from the French Revenue services reminding me of my legal responsiblities to report and ensure payment for the French VAT on all digital sales was made ontime! I then received an email from the UK HMRC confirming that the email was not a fraudulent email, but really from the french revenue service.

BREXIT cannot come soon enough for me.

little woman,

What makes you think that cross border collection of VAT will stop post-Brexit? This could easily be a case of Brexiters not getting what they thought they were voting for.

Aside from the hassle of different VAT rates being applied across each of the member states, it's not just Brits selling to the other EU27 who are affected - distance selling VAT affects any business around the world who sells to any EU member state where the sales total exceeds the distance selling VAT threshold of a particular member state. It's designed to prevent overseas businesses being too competitive at the cost of local EU businesses. So if an Australian or American business wants to sell a digital product in Europe, they need to register for VAT.

European tax authorities get revenue paid to them by HMRC, and vice versa. It's big bucks. As part of the Brexit trade talks, I suspect both sides will be keen to maintain the status quo, and I would have thought you'll have something to that effect enshrined within the deal.

However, there is accounting software available for MOSS which means you don't have to count the beans manually. And if your other EU27 sales are negligable, and you don't want the hassle of MOSS, why don't you block any IP address outside of the UK from your online store? If you don't sell to them, you wouldn't need to comply.

edit: Another option, if you want the sales but not the hassle of MOSS, would be use an eCommerce provider such as MyCommerce or Avangate. They actually become the selller of the goods, and take responsibility for collecting payments, applying the correct VAT level, delivering the download, generating the invoice, and it is they who hand over the VAT to the relevant tax authority each quarter. They then send you the money each month (less their cut, of course), and you forget all about everything VAT related.

Hilary, with Brexit VAT moss would not be enforcable. Unfortuntey most software (which does not cost a fortune) cannot cope with both VAT MOSS and ECSL which is another VAT system for physical sales where VAT is paid in the selling country not the purchasers country. A business which sells both digital & physical at one fixed price no matter which country in the world The purchaser is from using different payment options, human intervention is needed as the software cannot cope with so many different factors to take into account.

I am doing vat for another business, as the accountant, which was trading for many years before VAT moss. A lot of people rely on this business as they also pay royalties to others and have many sources of income. When a business is turning over more than 50k a month with the majority of sales physical as well as digital for less than £5.00 per sale it becomes a lot of work keeping on top of the software issues, and making sure it is correct. I had to remove the currency factor as i found the software was often “out”by up to 10-15% which could wipe out the any profit once the VAT was removed. Selling outside the EU is far more profitable than selling inside the EU.

Many businesses have refused to sell in the EU, and this includes businesses in other EU countries. This means trade within the EU is restricted and lacking choice. The EU was supposed improve trade, not make it worse.

Interesting stuff.

With respect, little woman, I think collection of VAT by EU27 member states would be totally enforcable if it weren't part of a trade deal.

If they know who you are, they'll just apply for an arrest warrant and your extradition to face trial. Look at the case 10 or 15 years ago of the British gambling plc who didn't realise they had US clients on their books residing in states where gambling was forbidden. Their MD went off on holiday to the US, got arrested at the airport, and didn't come home.

The only difference as I see it would be that each EU27 member state would apply their own distance selling VAT threshold, which could either mean that you'd have to pay no VAT whatsoever if you didn't hit any of the thresholds, or you'd have to pay VAT to multiple member states which could be an absolute nightmare.

Notwithstanding, I don't think it will come to that. Both the EU and UK have got too much to lose (I think HMRC hand over about 3bn € each year to the EU in VAT receipts, and obviously get paid some back themselves). Why wouldn't they want to include MOSS within a trade deal?

Selected sayings from down the ages

1950: "How much for parned nowets"
1960: "A rolling stone gathers no moss"
2017: "A rolling stone gathers no VAT Moss"

Hilary, I really do hope you are wrong.

Personally I am now working towards my Retirement Exit strategy (when did we have to do this? ) so hopefully what ever happens, I will no longer have to work evenings and weekends just to make sure the VAT MOSS gets done correctly and on time.

Well i'll stick my neck out and say that was pretty good from Hammond , thought he was a bit of a sad case before but came across well . He seems to have grasped we are actually leaving , let's hope May doesn't cave in to the EU bully brigade .

hilly, little w.

This might interest you re €uroballs:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-21/geoblocking-prevalent-eus-online-shoppers

Thanks, Max - that's very interesting. It plays into the hands of eurosceptics everywhere, and I totally get why little woman is hacked off with it all. The EU are just so out of touch when it comes to understanding how business works.

I guess the way around it when it comes to physical goods would be to charge excessive shipping so as to act as a deterrent.

However, when it comes to digital sales, my personal opinion is that it's best to use an eCommerce gateway who take care of everything.