for more information about stanelco click on the links.

driver's research page link
http://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/posts.php?tid=7681#lastread
website link
http://www.stanelco.co.uk/index.htm

saying that , we could do with some more retro-fit orders, though.........

bos
Re "cleared up by the more intelligent" I won't bother then.

Christ bos. If you're after comments by the more intelligent you're gonna have to start a new thread!!

bos. I think ii is the guy you're looking for. ii stands for immensely (large head) intelligent. 'Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!' - that's his own book. We simple folk stick to the plain facts without having to distort them. Reckon that's a good way to tackle it. Now I've forgotten what you asked and we are on a new page. Never mind, it was probably a rhetorical question - better than ii's rhetorical answers, not even he can remember the qustion.

By the way, have you opened a new CFD on SEO. Think its a good time to do it. May have a week or so left at this sp level and then its history.

Eric

Thread created for The more intelligent.

https://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/posts.php?tid=8461#lastread

Hi All,

Lots of options, but I too am split between another aquistion, or Biotec big expansion, or Greenseal rapid rollout costs.

I think it's safe to say that the last two being the case, then Stanelco must have already received some massive interest in the products, for them to think they will NEED more money available at short notice :)

Borrowing cash is more like the second two options, as the revenue will quickly pay the money back. Placing sounds more like option one, as per Biotec and all the other aquisitions before it.

I said before, that someone had been discussing an idea with me, for a massive use of Biotec TPS, we chatted, he made a very good case up for the idea, and HQ and the prospective client are looking at it, and if it comes off, then a massive upgrade of TPS output will be needed to supply the end users requirements, that is a possiility for the cash too. Nothing guaranteed yet though !

Cheers,

PM

Apart from the resolutions to allow another 46M shares to be issued to dilute again and also the need to increase debt ability -


Did you get these two in the RNS yesterday ? -

1 - In particular Polyethylene ('PE') and Amorphous Polyethylene Terephthalate ('APET') sheet for making food trays is currently priced in the order of 1.70 per kilo, whilst the target price for Biotec's comparable materials will be priced in the region of
1.80 per kilo.

The real price on the market today for PE is 1.70 the TARGET price for Biotec is 1.80 yes its only a TARGET price and most likely will not be reached yet more SPIN imo sounds impressive though but they cannot even word the news realistic target to give it some more strength just say target whose target ? and why not give reference to the present market price per kilo for Biotecs or would it frighten people at the difference between hidden present and stated target ?

2 - The Acquisition Agreement further provides for the assignment to Stanelco of debts currently owed by Biotec to the Vendor amounting to approximately 16 million ('Vendor Indebtedness').

So now SEO has a nice 16 million Euro debt to hold and service so they are paying 25M US$ for hard gross assets of 2.8m making a net loss of 1.3M Euro with a debt of 16M Euro.


And this one from the RNS for joint venture 5th July -

Biotec is one of the world's leading exponents of starch technology and made a pre-tax profit of 0.1m in the year to 31st December 2004 and had gross assets of 2.8m at the year then ended


And this one from the RNS for the acquisition 6th June

At the last accounting reference date 31 December 2004 Biotec's Net Assets were EUR 6.1m and in the last financial year ended 31 December 2004 Biotec made a net loss of EUR1.3m.

Called into ASDA to check on Greenseal, could only find fish using the technology.
I noticed that it had a complete wrapt around similar to cling film, with a crimping
like seal, as against the normal heat sealed top cover.
My one impression was how Fresh the fish looked, and this was at 9pm.
So it would appears to do, what we are led to believe it would do.
cyril

shareshure
dont take any notice of premarket prices ( unless acc by rns ). didnt see the other explanation, but this sort of thing happens on most SETS stocks. often the bid is higher than the offer. its due to market makers not being online. what you are seeing is prices on the order book. there may be a punter with a buy or sell order for 18p for example. level2 can be a very good investment for those with the time and money.

Driver,
Love the new thread, but the title makes me wonder if anyone on here is qualified to post on it. The obvious exception is ii, who is so clever, he has created an entirely new language all for himself, where the words don't mean what they say, so if he posted on it we wouldn't understand it anyway.

Amazing - my post 8145 and you hide your head in the sand when the figures have been changed from net assets to GROSS assets - what is that all about - how can real nett assets be now less in terms of gross assets ?? Changing their mind on the figures - And the debt - oh dear - maybe explains the big selling - are these people ethical in the changes between RNSs and figures ?? Its a very valid question now.

Thread for the more intelligent.

https://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/posts.php?tid=8461#lastread

Superrod, thanks for the reassurance; I've gone ahead anyway with that purchase.
I am backing a hunch that next week, (Tuesday, who knows?) we may get another announcement re Wallmart; maybe not the signed up deal, but close on? Merely guessing on my part, although on my first two tranches after I bought news flowed within the week. Hope the luck continues.
I still haven't ruled out purchasing another two tranches, although I would be happier to see the supply of stock slowing. It was a bit unnerving to see the two fairly large end of day sells go through. I still view this as a 'one way ticket ' over a two year period which is the arbitrary timescale I've set for achieving a 10/20 bagger on SEO.
One query I have is if The Age Of Reason is supplying shares into the market by reducing its holding, would SEO be compelled to notify the LSE because of its family link with Howard White?

thank you ii for giving your opinion to my question. at least that's one point of view. i am still not convinced that it is correct. i was hoping for better answers as it is a very valid question. before we (shareholders) give our approval i think we should be told if the 16m euro debt is part of the 25m euro "total consideration" ?
great new thread, driver.!!!!!

Must confess ii that I will continue to put my head in the sand - because everytime I do = the price seems to go up - so here goes (grinding noise) - muffled effect for head now in the sand.

I will pop it up again in the next couple of weeks to see what has happened !!

Baza

Bosley, perhaps this answers your question:

From the RNS:

"Under the terms of the Disposal Agreement to be entered into in accordance with
the Heads of Terms, SP Metal will agree to acquire a 50 per cent. interest in
Biotec, including a 50 per cent. interest in the Vendor Indebtedness from
Stanelco."

If you aquire an interest in "indebtedness" I would assume this to mean that you are now the creditor and not the debtor. In other words, the Vendor has forgiven the loan.

If Stanelco really owed 8 million to the Vendor, I'm sure they would not have hidden it in lawyer language.

niels, my reading of it is that the 16m euro debt is part of the 25m euro total consideration. with sp metal buying 50% they are also taking on 50% of the debt. in other words , the aquisition of biotec costs 9m euros plus 16m euros of debt. the debt is to biotec's owner , kashoggi, so once the deal goes through biotec has, in effect, a clean slate. sp metal are stumping up 50% including 50% of the debt. that's how i see it. how do other people read it? i just want to clarify that buying biotec will not land seo with a large debt.

Bosley, I agree with your conclusion. However, the technicalities are that the debt is assigned to Stanelco, who then assigns 50% of it to SP. The price for the shares have nothing to do with this, except that the debt assignment had to be made by the Vendor for the deal to go through. I.e. the "invoice" does not show the debt, but the debt assignment was a precondition for the deal.

Bottom line: Stanelco does not owe 8 million Euros to the Vendor. (Just as you say).

Well, that's my reading anyway.

The debt is assigned to SEO - as you read the RNS they state that owing to the debt levels of Biotec the present 10M pounds allowance is too low - and they need to increase the allowance - so the whole 16M Euro is going against SEO - maybe this was part of the SP Metal "CONDITIONAL" purchase of that material - ? - !

This 16M Euro debt - more shares to dilute and increased debt levels to cover this Biotec debt of 16M Euro which goes to Stanelco - from the RNS Friday - seems to have stopped the EVO buying in its tracks - my take on last week was that EVO were supporting the price with their buys - buying in ahead of releasing an updated note on Monday - so they could sell to their clients based on their note and ramblings and forward looking guesses contained inside - now since the RNS Friday and realisation of debt levels et al - the buying stopped - EVO could now be sitting on a load of shares and potentially have nobody to sell them too - I think EVO will hurt Monday - Tuesday - if the sellers come in strong - all IMO.

Bosley - to set your restless mind at ease . . .

The following extracts from the RNS re acquisition of Biotec on 6th June and the RNS re circular to shareholders on 5th August make the position clear.


"At the last accounting reference date 31 December 2004 Biotec's Net Assets were
EUR 6.1m and in the last financial year ended 31 December 2004 Biotec made a net
loss of EUR1.3m. This loss was before charging interest of EUR 1m on loans from
Biotec's parent which will no longer be a relevant item after the acquisition."

This tells us that the Euro16m debt on Biotec's balance sheet will have a zero interest effect after acquisition by Stanelco - i.e. Biotec will be paying interest on the debt to its 100% parent Stanelco - zero consolidated P&L effect.

"The Acquisition Agreement further provides for the assignment to Stanelco of
debts currently owed by Biotec to the Vendor amounting to approximately 16
million ("Vendor Indebtedness")."

This tells us that Stanelco are also acqiring from EKL the debt owed by Biotec to its then parent EKL, so that post acquisition Stanelco owns the debt and will receive any interest payments from its new subsidiary. Stanelco has acquired the benefit, not the burden, of the loan.

So Stanelco paid a total of $25m to acquire net assets of Euro6.1m and a debt of Euro16m = Euro 22.1 = ~$26.5m. Seems like a good deal to me.

Subsequently, Stanelco sold half the net assets and half the debt to SP Metal in the same way, so now Stanelco and SP Metal each receive half the interest paid by Biotec on its loan of Euro16m.

On Biotec's books there will be a debt liability owed to Stanelco and SP Metal. On Stanelco's books there will be a loan asset owed to it by Biotec. With a 50/50 JV, there will no longer be consolidated accounts between Stanelco and Biotec, but Stanelco's accounts will show its 50% interest in the P&L and B/S of Biotec. We should be able to see a P&L line stating "interest recived from 50/50 JV Biotec" in future.

Capisce?

sd